Community Forums

dbertheau · 09-30-2022, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewskiRanch

The way I see it is there are three signals from the transfer box to the Firefly unit.
1. No shore power
2. 20 or 30 amp 120 service to only one leg. Firefly will only allow one AC to run with this.
3. 50 amp 120 service to both legs. Now there is no reason that you could not take the one power leg from the inverter and power both legs, and fool it into thinking you had 50 amp service, but you will be tripping the inverter if you draw to much power.

If someone could figure what the comm signal is from the Transfer box that would be good, but that is beyond my skills, and I do not want to ruin things.

I think in the transfer switch is where the current draw is measured and that's the signal that goes to the Firefly. So I'm thinking that just providing presence voltage may not be enough...might need to have current flow being measured. Could test using power from our garage before running power cable from inverter.

dbertheau · 09-30-2022, 11:13 AM

One good thing...your coach may be the same as mine. There is an AC receptical next to the transfer switch that is powered by the inverter powered breaker panel. So, if voltage presence is all that's needed, no need to run a cable from the inverter.

dbertheau · 09-30-2022, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by az99

After several emails and weeks of waiting Firefly got back to me. For only $3500 they will fix their unit. They are nuts.
As far as I am concerned it was poor programming on their part to sell a unit for coaches that had lithium power capable of running the AC.

I just got the same email. Hard to believe!

az99 · 09-30-2022, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbertheau

There are only two wires going from the transfer switch to the FireFly controller. We should be able to use a multimeter to determine what signal is coming from the transfer switch to the Firefly.

In my coach there is an AC receptical in the box where there transfer switch is located...so we can probably do all the wiring within this box where the shore power is located.

What type wires are they? Cat 5 or power cables?

dbertheau · 09-30-2022, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by az99

What type wires are they? Cat 5 or power cables?

It's actually just two 18ga wires that are in a cable shield...so, power cables I would guess.

lslblues · 09-30-2022, 10:10 PM

Firefly is measuring voltage across the 2 legs and to neutral. 120 from l1/l2 to neutral and 0 from l1 to l2 is 15,20,30 amp service. It doesn’t know, that’s why you choose it. 120 from l1/l2 to neutral and 240 from l1 to l2 it’s 50 amp. It can detect that automatically. Unless you can get l2 to be out of phase with l1 you will never “fool it”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewskiRanch

The way I see it is there are three signals from the transfer box to the Firefly unit.
1. No shore power
2. 20 or 30 amp 120 service to only one leg. Firefly will only allow one AC to run with this.
3. 50 amp 120 service to both legs. Now there is no reason that you could not take the one power leg from the inverter and power both legs, and fool it into thinking you had 50 amp service, but you will be tripping the inverter if you draw to much power.

If someone could figure what the comm signal is from the Transfer box that would be good, but that is beyond my skills, and I do not want to ruin things.

dbertheau · 09-30-2022, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lslblues

Firefly is measuring voltage across the 2 legs and to neutral. 120 from l1/l2 to neutral and 0 from l1 to l2 is 15,20,30 amp service. It doesn’t know, that’s why you choose it. 120 from l1/l2 to neutral and 240 from l1 to l2 it’s 50 amp. It can detect that automatically. Unless you can get l2 to be out of phase with l1 you will never “fool it”.

I could be wrong, but i think firefly measures current for the EMS functionality...not voltage. EMS is what drives Shed, etc.

Regardless, I agree, won't be able to fake out firefly with power from inverter.

az99 · 10-01-2022, 05:52 AM

Does anyone have an installation wiring diagram for the firefly?

dbertheau · 10-01-2022, 06:30 AM

For my coach, Renegade has no wiring diagram. I have pulled out and redesigned the power feed from the transfer switch to inverter to breaker panels...I now have a basic design diagram for my coach.

I asked Jesse at FireFly if he can provide info on the two wires coming from the transfer switch to the Firefly controller and he declined to comment.

Reverse engineering what signals the two wires that go from the transfer switch to the firefly controller are providing and what the controller is doing with that info, is what needs to occur. Or pay firefly $3,500 to program a solution...which they have stated will be to disable the EMS. Instead of enhancing and making their EMS smarter for $3,500, they will charge $3,500 to disable and remove functionality.

dbertheau · 10-01-2022, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbertheau

For my coach, Renegade has no wiring diagram. I have pulled out and redesigned the power feed from the transfer switch to inverter to breaker panels...I now have a basic design diagram for my coach.

I asked Jesse at FireFly if he can provide info on the two wires coming from the transfer switch to the Firefly controller and he declined to comment.

Reverse engineering what signals the two wires that go from the transfer switch to the firefly controller are providing and what the controller is doing with that info, is what needs to occur. Or pay firefly $3,500 to program a solution...which they have stated will be to disable the EMS. Instead of enhancing and making their EMS smarter for $3,500, they will charge $3,500 to disable and remove functionality.

LOL, az99, you asked a yes / no question but got multiple paragraphs! Sometimes I get overly verbose.

az99 · 10-01-2022, 10:30 AM

All info is helpful so we don't waste our time on things that have been already tried. Saying it can't be done just fuels the fire in me to find a solution.

Unless this is a system that actually monitors amp draw, which I doubt, there should be a way to make the unit think it is on shore power when on the inverter.

dbertheau · 10-03-2022, 03:41 PM

I communicated with a technician from Southwire (maker of the transfer switch) and he validated that they pass data through the two wires to the FireFly system using the RV-C specification. The RV-C specifications are available online to all.

I'm heading out of town for the week. When I return I'll connect with one of my electrical engineer friends here in the silicon valley to see if he can read the ATS data and then build a device that can simulate pushing the same data from the ATS.

BrewskiRanch · 10-03-2022, 06:25 PM

Thanks for your work on this. That would be the simplest solution to our problem, want to run AC and other things on battery.

98Exec · 10-31-2022, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idleup

OK looks like you have a system with good capacity that will easily run your AC unit. Not sure how Renegade wired them up did you try calling tech service.

Mike

Mike,

You made this work on your 2020 Renegade Verona. You can run your AC off the inverter. How did you accomplish that? Can you control the AC from your Firefly system? I want to mirror your 5112 system on my 2020 Verona 40VRB but want this to run the AC.

Thanks
D