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Old 11-03-2022, 11:16 AM   #85
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Any update to your solution @dbertheau? I am certain that @idleup has solved this issue, but no idea how. He indicates in his videos he can run both AC’s off of his inverter.
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Old 11-03-2022, 06:10 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by 98Exec View Post
Any update to your solution @dbertheau? I am certain that @idleup has solved this issue, but no idea how. He indicates in his videos he can run both ACs off of his inverter.
No progress. Too many things going on and momentum kinda slowed on this. Looking forward to seeing how Mike solved the problem.
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Old 11-03-2022, 11:50 PM   #87
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No progress. Too many things going on and momentum kinda slowed on this. Looking forward to seeing how Mike solved the problem.
I know Mikes is a 2020, as is mine. Is this a list 2020 issue? I noticed the original poster has a 2022.
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Old 11-04-2022, 06:33 AM   #88
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The issue is Firefly is controlling the AC and there is no way to get it to think you have 50 amp. If you disconnected the firefly control wires from the AC controller in the front of the AC on the roof, and ran a separate thermostat, you could do whatever you wanted. I don't believe Mike's unit Firefly controlling the climate controls.
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Old 11-04-2022, 10:01 AM   #89
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Certainly on my 2020 (same year as Mike's) all AC controls are through the firefly system. I have a 2020 Verona 40VRB and everything for HVAC is run through the panel. There is not any Inverter integration in the 2020, so that may be the difference. My inverter controller is in the front cupboards above the cab.
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Old 11-05-2022, 01:03 AM   #90
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I also have a 2020...but mine is a Verona 34vqb.

I can run the ACs on shore power 30amp or 50amp.

Could never run air conditioners via inverter. I rewired power from transfer switch directly to a new Victron 3k inverter (replaced 2k Magnum inverter). AC power from transfer switch now is direct to inverter and inverter feeds both breaker panels...all recepticals are powered regardless of shore, generator or inverter supplying AC power.

My only problem now is the FireFly does not allow AirConditioners to run when no power from transfer switch. Air conditioners run via power from generator, 30amp shore or 50amp shore.
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Old 11-05-2022, 11:19 AM   #91
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This is like riding a roller coaster, each time I think I am out of the woods, the next up hill climb starts!

I have exchanged a few mails with Mike and he has indicated he didn't have this issue. Now I have no idea how he wired it, but he did say "you are lifting the AC lead in the fuse panel and moving it to the lithium inverter circuit."

I wonder if routing power through the transfer switch is the root of the issue. If you instead wired the AC directly to the inverter circuit if that would work, versus going through the transfer switch.
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Old 11-05-2022, 01:16 PM   #92
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There are two independent things to think about for this discussion regarding how the AC units function. One is simply having 120V power to function and the other is how the AC unit is controlled...when to turn on, etc... The problem we are trying to solve is regarding the control of the AC unit.

Mike installed two systems, one in his class A and one in his 2020 Verona. I'm not sure how the class A controls the AC units, but I suspect not through a FireFly system. I suspect his class A has no issues. I'm don't have an understanding of how his 2020 Verona AC units are controlled and work when powered via his inverter.

In my 2020 Verona, the FireFly system controls the AC. The FireFly receives a signal from the transfer switch indicating Shore Power or Generator Power...if Shore Power or Generator Power, then the FireFly system tells the AC to work in full capacity. If no signal from transfer switch indicating Shore Power or Generator Power, then the FireFly system tells the AC to work in SHED mode.

It has noting to do with how the AC units are sourced 120V power, it has to do with info that the FireFly system receives from the transfer switch, which drives how the FireFly system controls the AC units.

The makers of the FireFly system understand the issue. They offered some of us a solution for a cost of $3,500...for this cost they will turn off their EMS functionality and we must remove the FireFly controller and send to them for the update. For $3,500 they will disable functionality versus enhancing their product to recognize inverter sourced power.

Someone suggested another solution where we bypass the FireFly system for AC unit control. Would require rewire control from the AC units to a separate thermostat.

One other idea may be to understand what signal the AC units receive from the FireFly system that tells them to only work in SHED mode. Maybe there is a way to modify wiring in the AC unit to fully function when receiving a SHED mode signal???
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Old 11-05-2022, 03:09 PM   #93
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Thanks. I understand the thread and the issues. What I am trying to rationalize is someone has made this work without the need to solve this frefly problem. The one difference I have identified is how it was wired, not wiring the inverter power to the transfer switch, but instead directly to the power draw (the AC via the inverter breaker bar). Based on what people are describing here that would not solve the problem. Based on Mike’s description of his Renegade with the Firefly he didn’t hit the problem.

Me, I am not investing $20,000+ until I am sure it will solve my key issue, living off grid with just inverter power.

Thanks for engaging in the discussion!
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Old 11-05-2022, 06:35 PM   #94
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Everything Firefly knows about available power it learns from the ATS via the data it puts on the RV-C network. I think it'll be difficult to defeat the Firefly's shed logic because it's based on what the ATS tells it.

The ATS knows when 50A is available from shore power because it senses the split-phase source. When you use a 30A or a 15/20A dogleg adapter for shore power, the ATS doesn't know if 15 or 20 or 30A are available, so it can't communicate that to Firefly. That's why we have to manually select the shore power breaker size on the Firefly screen.

But, in the case of 15/20/30A, the ATS does know it's single phase. The dogbone may bridge the 1-phase shore power onto both legs for the RV, but the ATS still knows there's no phase difference between the legs, so it knows (and tells Firefly) that the available SP is not 50A. In other words, the ATS and Firefly may not know whether SP is 15, 20, or 30A, but they do know it's not true 50A split-phase, and so Firefly applies its shed logic.

To get the ATS to report 50A to Firefly, I think you'll need to feed it actual split-phase power. Not necessarily 50A split-phase like actual shore power, but it needs to be split-phase. Only when the ATS detects (and reports) split-phase power will Firefly allow big loads like the ACs to operate - in other words, not shed.

I think the easiest way (although not inexpensive) to feed the ATS true split-phase power is to use a Victron Multiplus 2 inverter. I don't think the ATS will be able to tell the difference between 50A SP and the split-phase output of the Victron. The Victon doesn't output 50A (per leg) of power, but the ATS won't know that, just like it doesn't know the difference between 15, 20, and 30A single-phase SP.

There may be someone else on the forum who can explain how to use auto-transformers to convert single-phase to split-phase power, so you could use another inverter that doesn't output split-phase like the Multiplus 2 does. But if you need to buy a 2nd inverter anyway, adding the Victron might be the simplest way to do this.
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Old 11-06-2022, 04:42 AM   #95
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But, in the case of 15/20/30A, the ATS does know it's single phase. The dogbone may bridge the 1-phase shore power onto both legs for the RV, but the ATS still knows there's no phase difference between the legs, so it knows (and tells Firefly) that the available SP is not 50A. In other words, the ATS and Firefly may not know whether SP is 15, 20, or 30A, but they do know it's not true 50A split-phase, and so Firefly applies its shed logic.

To get the ATS to report 50A to Firefly, I think you'll need to feed it actual split-phase power. Not necessarily 50A split-phase like actual shore power, but it needs to be split-phase. Only when the ATS detects (and reports) split-phase power will Firefly allow big loads like the ACs to operate - in other words, not shed.
I have a 20 amp to 50 amp adapter on mine and it runs the AC just fine. 21 Classic
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Old 11-06-2022, 04:46 AM   #96
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But no go when I wire it to the inverter. Shed Load.
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Old 11-06-2022, 09:00 AM   #97
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Ok on our 2021 Verona has the AC control wires are under the cook-top. All wires that the Firefly control are under the cook-top. The cook-top is only held in place by double stick tape. If you remove the cook-top you should be able to disconnect the AC control wires and install a new thermostat below the Firefly unit on the wall. You also will need a remote temp sensor if you use the cook-top, but they available, or use the existing remote one.


BUT this is not the solution I am looking for, this is the last option for me, I would like to control AC thru Firefly.


If the Firefly people would just allow us to remove the Shed as a option in the electrical settings, maybe if you say you have Lithium batteries?


How is the Firefly unit updated? Can the update be done remotely? If you need to send the main board in there is a lot of wires to disconnect!!
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Old 11-06-2022, 03:59 PM   #98
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For $3,500 the Firefly folks will disable the EMS functionality in their system. This eliminates the SHED logic.

This will require the removal of the control unit under the stove and send to them. No time commitment of how long they will keep the controller...number of weeks is what I understand.
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