3,000 watt inverter/charger

[BrewskiRanch]

This is very interesting, why did Renegade not get this option?
https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ms-239724.html

[emdoc]

Just a thought. Instead of $3500 to Firefly to disable functionality, a Raspberry Pi with an RV-C connector could be programmed to emulate a shore power present signal. RV-C is open source. Unplug the RV-C connector from the ATS and plug it into the Raspberry Pi emulator when you want to run the AC off the Lithium. Not without difficulty but cheaper and ? easier than having Firefly program something.

[98Exec]

Originally Posted by BrewskiRanch

This is very interesting, why did Renegade not get this option?
https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ms-239724.html

Are in the field updates part of the Firefly system? If so, it would appear that would be a simple configuration option for Firefly to add to our coach system.

[az99]

Originally Posted by 98Exec

Are in the field updates part of the Firefly system? If so, it would appear that would be a simple configuration option for Firefly to add to our coach system.

This is either a Firefly oversight or a Renegade issue. Firefly demanding $3500 to fix the screwup is ridiculous. One of them needs to step up and correct it. Paying $10,000 for the lithium upgrade and not having it even capable of running the AC is unacceptable.

[BrewskiRanch]

Houston We Have AC on Battery!!!!!!

Ok it is very simple what you need to do.
1. Turn off the circuit breaker in the bottom panel labeled Charger. This is the circuit that supply's Shore power to the inverter. It is important to turn this off or you will just make a power loop thru the inverter.
2. The power outlet in the shore power compartment gets its power from the inverter. Take your shore power cord and plug it into this outlet with the correct adapter.
3. Make sure the inverter is on and shore assist is set to max, (60 amps on the Magnum).

4. Next go to the FireFly panel and set the AC input to 30 amps.


AC will now work!! BUT you will need to manage your power loads or you will overload the inverter! Not Both AC units at the same time!



Not sure what wire size is going to the outlet that you are plugging the shore power cord into, but my guess is #14, NOT large enough to really power the AC unit. What I plan to do next is run #8 or #6 wire from the inverter to the shore power compartment to plug into.


Also not sure why on the Firefly panel it is showing 120 volts to both L1 and L2??


This was done on a 2021 36VSB Verona and it works for me!

[98Exec]

Originally Posted by BrewskiRanch

Houston We Have AC on Battery!!!!!!

Ok it is very simple what you need to do.
1. Turn off the circuit breaker in the bottom panel labeled Charger. This is the circuit that supply's Shore power to the inverter. It is important to turn this off or you will just make a power loop thru the inverter.
2. The power outlet in the shore power compartment gets its power from the inverter. Take your shore power cord and plug it into this outlet with the correct adapter.
3. Make sure the inverter is on and shore assist is set to max, (60 amps on the Magnum).

4. Next go to the FireFly panel and set the AC input to 30 amps.


AC will now work!! BUT you will need to manage your power loads or you will overload the inverter! Not Both AC units at the same time!



Not sure what wire size is going to the outlet that you are plugging the shore power cord into, but my guess is #14, NOT large enough to really power the AC unit. What I plan to do next is run #8 or #6 wire from the inverter to the shore power compartment to plug into.


Also not sure why on the Firefly panel it is showing 120 volts to both L1 and L2??


This was done on a 2021 36VSB Verona and it works for me!

This solution is basically using the inverter/batteries to power shore power without changing other wiring. Said differently providing power to the Shore power/generator only circuits from the inverter via the shore power/generator wiring. True?

If you upgrade to a 5000 watt inverter and install heavy duty wire from the inverter to the Shore power cord you could run both AC's. Or will firefly still shut it down as it doesn't sense dual phase power. Unless you are outputing dual phase from the inverter.

Could you accomplish the same option by wiring directly into the Transfer Switch?

[BrewskiRanch]

Yes it is basically using the inverter power and routing it to the shore power cord. Just remember you need to turn off the Charge circuit breaker (this should have been labeled Inverter Power).



I would not wire the inverter power to the power transfer box, as it can only take two inputs not three, you still want the shore power option.



My guess is the transfer box does NOT check for dual phase power. There was no reason for them to add this feature. My guess is you could just wire the inverter output to both legs of the transfer box and it would think you had 50 amp service.

[98Exec]

I really appreciate the ingenuity in finding this solution, but I really don't like the idea of having to "trick" the system in this way to work. This is a $30,000 upgrade (by the time you add 20,000 WH of battery, solar, new inverter and all the associated hardware). Seems there must be a better solution than this. Not to mention I think this would require you to unplug the cord each time you wanted to use the generator to charge the batteries when boondocking.

It literally is a software switch in the Firefly system. No other options have surfaced?

Thanks
Doug

[Idleup]

Hello Renegade Owner - I've been reading through the posts - My Verona uses Firefly as well. I have the entire AC panel wired thru the inverter so I can run either front or back or even two AC units at the same time. It's possible that Firefly might have added additional shedding in newer units.

Just to clarify things - under no circumstances should you attempt to run two AC units on a 12 volt lithium system. I did so for a few minutes just to make a point in my Renegade video. Due to the high amperage of 12 volt lithium systems when running the AC, the cables, fuses, terminals and even the inverter will heat excessively to a point they can fail.

The only safe 12 volt alternative to run two AC units is using separate battery / inverter sets. To avoid this problem - I recently designed a 51 volt lithium system for RV owners called "5112 Dual Voltage Dual Inverter Lithium System" for owners who wish to use two AC units or one AC unit and a cook top etc. This is accomplished by using 51 volts solely for inversion, and a 2nd 12 volt lithium system used to power the RV's 12 volt devices slides, jacks, light, pumps etc. This 51 volt system can easily power two AC units because a 51 volt system only uses 25% of the amperage of a 12 volt system so there is nearly no heat losses.

I provided an illustration below (click to expand) to help explain differences of amperage when using 12-24-51 volt systems. As the chart shows, the 51 volt system is clearly the way to go, there is almost no heat - no heat means no losses which means more battery capacity. You can waste 10-20% of your battery on just heat related losses and faster inverter fan use. Keep in mind, during summer with the battery system sealed in a closed compartment, the temperatures will rise considerable as well making matters worse and higher component temperatures.

It's important to note - running your AC on 12 volt lithium should be what I call an "Over-Night" AC system. On my Verona I close off the bedroom / bath, from the rest of the coach and run the rear AC unit. In just minutes at night, the compressor pump cycles off then only runs maybe 15-30 minutes an hour which really extends my AC cycle time.

I also included a link below to my "5112 Dual Inverter Dual Voltage Lithium System" which I installed in a Newmar. This system would be identical in a Renegade.

Stay Safe - Mike

5112 dual Voltage Lithium System

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxSS44przNs

[BrewskiRanch]

Mike
Yes I agree, a 12 volt system is best used for an "over-night" AC system only.
As during the day 95% of the time we are outside, night AC is what we want for better sleep.
It sounds like your Firefly system does not shed power like the newer Renegades. The best solution I think short of unwireing the Firefly system and sending it in for reprogramming, and paying thousands! Is if someone could come up with the RV-C signal that the Firefly system needs to stop shedding power. Then we could just unplug the RV-C from the transfer box and plug that wire into a box that would send the correct RV-C signal to Firefly. Then we just would need to rewire the panel, a simple task.

Rick

[lslblues]

I think another option would be to disconnect the thermostat wires from the Firefly and connect to a standalone thermostat.

[98Exec]

Mike,

Once you wire both sides of the breakers directly to the inverter you didn't run into the shedding issue? Your coach is a 2020, correct? Somewhere in this thread I recall another poster saying they had a 2020 and did have the issue. I wonder if there was a mid year update to the firefly system. I have a 2020 and would like to build the 5112 system but don't want to get all they way done and discover I have this issue. Can you post what firmware version your firefly system is running?

[lslblues]

Has anyone just tried disconnecting the RVC cable from the transfer switch and see what Firefly defaults to? Maybe it will default to or let you choose 50 amp.

[98Exec]

Originally Posted by lslblues

Has anyone just tried disconnecting the RVC cable from the transfer switch and see what Firefly defaults to? Maybe it will default to or let you choose 50 amp.

Mike,

I had it in my mind you do the Lithium upgrade on a 2020 Verona, but your signature says 2019 Valencia. This difference might be relevant to the Firefly differences that seem to exist. Which one was the work done on?