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Old 12-13-2021, 06:18 AM   #1
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DEF head issues

And prevention of the issues. I have done some reading of the issue and the resulting disastrous effect it is having. In reading I see suggestions and comments to never go below 50% DEF tank fluid, it was a Valencia problem with mis-routed lines, defective software and chips(thanks china and EPA), to other unknown issues.

I previously have had Ford and Ram pickups with diesels and no seeming issues. No reported issues with the current Ford F550 chassis I currently have, but I'm getting a Valencia 35MB in a couple weeks and want to know what to expect and inspect when I pick it up? My understanding about the crossed lines is that was a FL problem at their factory but all resolved now. The issues of letting the DEF get low and allowing the sensors to read incorrectly seems a problematic design issue.

I don't want to be jumping into the fire on this so I'm open to suggestions to keep rolling down the road without having the problems.
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Old 12-13-2021, 07:42 AM   #2
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I've seen quite a few DEF posts on the Newmar page but none over here. Hopefully that's a good sign for Renegade owners.
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Old 12-13-2021, 08:46 AM   #3
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You should do a search of the entire IRV2 message board for “DEF Sensor” and you will find hundreds, if not thousands, of posts about this problem. The problem may affect all Spartan, Freightliner and Powerglide chassis built around 2016 and later. It is not specific to any brand coach and has been reported on Newmar, Tiffin, Entegra, Nexxus, etc.
While there are lots of theories about what the root cause is as far as I know nobody knows for sure other than it is vaguely related to heat.
The crossed lines problem you saw refers to the lines to nd from the DEF heater valve that is supposed to open to allow hot engine coolant to flow through the DEF sensor heating coils to defrost frozen DEF. The original valve would fail in the open position and allow hot coolant to circulate all the time and eventually the sensor electronics would fail.
However, that is not the only cause. Many of the Sensors fail with no explanation.
The problem is that when the sensors fail the chassis manufacturers often cannot supply replacement parts due to “supply chain” problems so that leaves owners who have failures that cause the Motorhome to be disabled with 3 solutions.
1. Cummins MAY agree to perform a Temporary Repair Procedure. This is a temporary software upload that allows the vehicle to operate without derating until parts are available. This has to be reversed as soon as a repair can be done.
2. You can find and perform the procedure for building a DIY Def Sensor Simulator (DSS) that can be installed that will also allow for the vehicle to be operated normally until permanent repairs to be done. You can search these forums and/or Google for “DEF Sensor Simulator DSS”.
3. You can park the Motorhome and weight for a replacement sensor to be available.
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Old 12-13-2021, 04:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer2 View Post
You should do a search of the entire IRV2 message board for “DEF Sensor” and you will find hundreds, if not thousands, of posts about this problem. The problem may affect all Spartan, Freightliner and Powerglide chassis built around 2016 and later. It is not specific to any brand coach and has been reported on Newmar, Tiffin, Entegra, Nexxus, etc.
While there are lots of theories about what the root cause is as far as I know nobody knows for sure other than it is vaguely related to heat.
The crossed lines problem you saw refers to the lines to nd from the DEF heater valve that is supposed to open to allow hot engine coolant to flow through the DEF sensor heating coils to defrost frozen DEF. The original valve would fail in the open position and allow hot coolant to circulate all the time and eventually the sensor electronics would fail.
However, that is not the only cause. Many of the Sensors fail with no explanation.
The problem is that when the sensors fail the chassis manufacturers often cannot supply replacement parts due to “supply chain” problems so that leaves owners who have failures that cause the Motorhome to be disabled with 3 solutions.
1. Cummins MAY agree to perform a Temporary Repair Procedure. This is a temporary software upload that allows the vehicle to operate without derating until parts are available. This has to be reversed as soon as a repair can be done.
2. You can find and perform the procedure for building a DIY Def Sensor Simulator (DSS) that can be installed that will also allow for the vehicle to be operated normally until permanent repairs to be done. You can search these forums and/or Google for “DEF Sensor Simulator DSS”.
3. You can park the Motorhome and weight for a replacement sensor to be available.
The reading you have suggested is what I have done however I haven't kept up with any latest development, if any. I did read the homemade bypass and may investigate building one for a "just in case" In the meantime I'll follow the "operate off there top half of the DEF tank" suggestion.
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Old 12-13-2021, 08:04 PM   #5
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OK, good luck.
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Old 12-14-2021, 05:11 AM   #6
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The common problem on the S2RV was that the def heater lines could be reversed, which caused engine coolant to constantly flow through the tank and cook the DEF header. That's what happened to mine. On M2's some people are having DEF header failures, not related to lines being reversed. So you have 3 possible problems - lines reversed, DEF heater valve failure, and just DEF electronics failure. Highly recommend getting a BlueFire device as that allows you to track DEF tank temp and DEF quality. You will eventually get de-rated if your DEF header starts sending bad data to ECM. The DEF simulator lets you get around that.
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Old 12-14-2021, 06:36 AM   #7
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Some coaches sit around a lot, and DEF gets old/concentration changes. Short trips and too much idling don't build enough temperature and can cause "snowballing" on the DEF injector.
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Old 12-14-2021, 06:50 AM   #8
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Archer2 is 110% correct. I have lost 2 DEF heads, both on brand new coaches with full DEF tanks and both with less than 2,000 miles. Build the DSS simulator he mentions and don't worry about the experience of others, including myself. Enjoy the coach, use the Boy Scout Motto "be prepaid" build the simulator and enjoy RV'ing.
I am sorry to say, with all of the complaints filed with the NHTSA and EPA,https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/def...sa-518276.html they don't care, no pressure is being put on the DEF sensor manufactures. Any corrective measures are up to the owners at this point.
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