New 2025 Explorer- battery charging issue

[trailerbal]

Two weeks ago, we traded our 2021 Verona VRB for a new 2025 Explorer ERB from Performance Motorcoaches in Wolfforth, TX. Excellent purchasing and delivery experience! Love the coach in every way and are looking forward to continuing our successful Renegade experience as we have for the last four years! We are heading back to Performance this week to complete a couple of add on s. I am confident our current issue will be addressed by the very competent team at Performance. That said, has anyone had an experience where the inverter works, but the battery charger fails to engage? This is new as of this weekend. I have already consulted with Performance over the phone. We have been through all resets of the inverters and Firefly, but the issue remains.

If nothing else, I thought I might share this now and pass on any learnings once the fix has been deployed. Our coach has two 3000 Victron inverters (Multiplus 12-3000-120-50), with 3 Lithium house battery's. Any input would be appreciated. Otherwise, I will update after our return trip to the dealer.

Thanks,
Wayne

[Judge64]

Did you ever get this resolved?

[trailerbal]

Originally Posted by Judge64

Did you ever get this resolved?

To answer your question, it took two trips to Performance to figure this out. After 6 hrs. on the road to Performance, the house batteries were fully charged from the chassis alternator. Though we had attempted to reset the servo prior to the trip, the only way to do that is to kill power to the coach, then disconnect the red/black wires at the bottom of the servo. Once doing this and while plugged into 50 AMP, the chargers returned to normal. Though we all thought this resolved the issue, once we returned home and put the coach back in storage plugged into only 15 amp, the same issue reoccurred. House batteries discharged and the chargers would not engage.

After returning to Performance for a second time, house batteries were fully charged in the trip out from chassis alternator like before. When plugged into 50 amp upon arrival, bulk chargers were functioning as normal.: facepalm:

This coach has 2, Victron 3000-watt inverters chargers. After some trial and error, along with some additional research by the Performance team, it appears Victron now programs these dual inverter chargers not to run on less than 30 AMP. In other words, these will not charge while plugged into 20 amp or below, but inverters continue to function. This drains the batteries.

So, what is the solution to keep batteries charged while plugged into 15 amp at our storage facility? After some creative thinking by the performance team, a small two leg smart battery charger, 5 amp per leg, was mounted in the battery bay. One leg is connected to house batteries, and one leg is connected to the chassis batteries. When at storage, I now turn off the Victron inverter chargers at the Firefly panel, followed by turning off both chassis and house battery disconnects. I then plug in the small smart charger, and it keeps both house and chassis batteries charged. I call it the Mississippi Band-Aid for a $500,000 plus coach, but it works.

With winter temperatures approaching freezing last night, I decided to test this approach while running the 450 Aqua Hot under these conditions. The Aqua hot will run even with battery disconnects off. So far it appears the small battery charger keeps up with any drain on house batteries when the Aqua Hot is running. The main drain on house batteries is associated with the Aqua hot fans in the house and water bay compartments.

Hope this helps anyone who may have a similar issue.

Wayne

[twinboat]

Not sure how the Victrons can tell the difference between 15/20 amp and 30 amps, both are 120 volts.

I would think it should just power up 1 Victron to handle charging in storage.

[lslblues]

You are right. It is electrically impossible for Victron to know whether it's plugged into 15, 20, or 30 amp service. Renegade configures this in a split phase configuration where if you are on anything other than 50 amp, inverter 1 passes the AC through and charges the batteries and inverter 2 provides the 2nd phase of power by inverting. Wayne has something misconfigured in his Victron programming or the Firefly integration if inverter 1 is not charging when plugged into 15 amp.

[oldenavy]

It sounds like your inverters aren’t set up correctly. There are a ton of settings that can only be accessed with the dongle through a PC. A Victron installer will have the dongle and knowledge to check for incorrect settings. The RV dealer is unlikely to have that detailed knowledge.

[Judge64]

I agree with the other replies. There is no way the Inverter / Charger can tell the difference between 15 / 20 / 30 / 50.

There is something else wrong. I would be on the phone with Victron Support and talking to them about the behavior. I would not expect a dealer to be able to troubleshoot a complex system like this properly without support from Victron.

These Chargers even have the ability to throttle the charging current by telling it the size of the shore power breaker. So if you tell it you plugged into 50A service, it will allow 120A of charging. If you tell it you' plugged it into 15A it will throttle the charging current back. That is because it can’t tell the difference in the size of the shore power service.

I would also go into the Floor Plan Settings in the FireFly and make sure the correct Inverter Charger is selected. There can be more than one Inverter / Charger Option and the wrong one could be selected. If the correct one is selected, then it could be something in the firmware or CANBUS communication causing an issue.

It could even be an intermittent issue with your transfer switch not allowing AC to pass into the coach when it is plugged into shore power.

The other thing I would be looking at is how Renegade wired the two Inverter / Chargers. Are they wired in parallel to charge all the batteries? Is only one Inverter / Charger providing the charging? Or have they wired some batteries to one charger and the other batteries to the other charger? The way it is configured could also be part of the equation.

[trailerbal]

Originally Posted by Judge64

I agree with the other replies. There is no way the Inverter / Charger can tell the difference between 15 / 20 / 30 / 50.

There is something else wrong. I would be on the phone with Victron Support and talking to them about the behavior. I would not expect a dealer to be able to troubleshoot a complex system like this properly without support from Victron.

These Chargers even have the ability to throttle the charging current by telling it the size of the shore power breaker. So if you tell it you plugged into 50A service, it will allow 120A of charging. If you tell it you' plugged it into 15A it will throttle the charging current back. That is because it can’t tell the difference in the size of the shore power service.

I would also go into the Floor Plan Settings in the FireFly and make sure the correct Inverter Charger is selected. There can be more than one Inverter / Charger Option and the wrong one could be selected. If the correct one is selected, then it could be something in the firmware or CANBUS communication causing an issue.

It could even be an intermittent issue with your transfer switch not allowing AC to pass into the coach when it is plugged into shore power.

The other thing I would be looking at is how Renegade wired the two Inverter / Chargers. Are they wired in parallel to charge all the batteries? Is only one Inverter / Charger providing the charging? Or have they wired some batteries to one charger and the other batteries to the other charger? The way it is configured could also be part of the equation.

Thank you for that! For anyone that has followed this post, the issue is now resolved. No doubt I have great respect for the work the team does at Performance Motor Coaches. From the quick fix that got us home, to the dedicated effort that continued until the final solution was found yesterday. No doubt these are complicated machines. It requires more than just knowledge, but the dedication to never quit. The team at Performance Motor Coaches has demonstrated that many times over since our purchase three weeks ago. Though we purchase these machines for pleasure, the challenge with breaking one in on the part of the Dealer and customer can be exhausting and disruptive. If there is in anyone out there considering a Renegade, travel trailer, fifth wheel or boat, Performance Motor Coach should be your first choice in consideration of that purchase.
Happy travels!
Wayne

[outlawten5]

What was the solution? Did they have to re-program the inverters? Or are you using the stand alone chargers as a band aid?

To add to this, I have heard you have to change inverter settings when plugged into 15amp shore-power. I think I would prefer having the stand alone chargers to simplify matters

[trailerbal]

Originally Posted by outlawten5

What was the solution? Did they have to re-program the inverters? Or are you using the stand alone chargers as a band aid?

To add to this, I have heard you have to change inverter settings when plugged into 15amp shore-power. I think I would prefer having the stand alone chargers to simplify matters

According to the shop, Line 2 power was set to fixed instead of floating. This would make both chargers to the same thing at all times. This would not let one charger be the pass through, while the other charges.

[outlawten5]

I wonder how many left the factory like that. Seems like every 2025 Explorer I see on RVTrader has dual inverters and lithium now. This post might help a bunch of people. Glad you got it fixed. Enjoy that new rig!!!

[Judge64]

Originally Posted by trailerbal

According to the shop, Line 2 power was set to fixed instead of floating. This would make both chargers to the same thing at all times. This would not let one charger be the pass through, while the other charges.

That makes a lot more sense..... and a simple fix!!!


It's good you let everyone know because I'm considering a Verona LA with the dual Inverter / Chargers so that is something I can check when I do my PDI.

[Judge64]

Originally Posted by trailerbal

If there is in anyone out there considering a Renegade, travel trailer, fifth wheel or boat, Performance Motor Coach should be your first choice in consideration of that purchase.
Happy travels!
Wayne

Nice to hear about good dealer experiences!

I'm considering a Verona or Verona LE. My local dealer is not moving much on price so I'm expanding my search and I did fine this dealer online.

I saw Jim Austin from there posting on the Buy / Sell Super C Facebook group and I actually sent him a message last night on what kind of discount he would offer if I ordered a Verona LE through Performance Motorcoach.

[GregoryS]

For what its worth. I too have a 2025 Explorer, and had issues in the beginning with my inverters. I was told by factory guy who helped me fix them that they operate in tandem.