California to end sales of gasoline-only cars by 2035

[move on]

Nuclear is the only way to go. If we ever get to the point where we have an excess of nuclear generated electricity to get rid of then maybe we can start thinking about EVs. There are a couple of 4th generation experimental reactors being funded now. One is a pebble bed reactor the other is a molten salt reactor. Both are perfectly safe, low waste designs that can't be used for weapons materials. I hope they work. If so we can move on to industrial scale units and then maybe by 2050 or 2060 we can start deploying them in old coal plants. Hopefully we will also move beyond this unworkable obsolete ecologically unfriendly lithium-ion NMC big bloated battery design. Then I might place an order for an EV in 2070.

[1stimerveer]

Originally Posted by tap4154

Just seems a shame that if we do eventually have a majority of electric vehicles, that we're still relying on old technology for electricity. Hydroelectricity is getting less and less viable, making new nuclear tech the obvious alternative. I mean if you want to go green, they're as green as it gets! Zero emissions. It's going to take a big public education push to break down the old stereotypes, many of which started when a certain movie was released many decades ago.

I couldn't agree more..

There are 54 nuclear power plants operating in the USA, many of which have been in operation for quite a few years.. That supports a great safety record.

EV - ICE combo passenger vehicles for day to day commuting make a lot of sense, and they can also be used for long trips. EV-ICE combo vehicles won't be making things any "greener" because fossil fuels still generate most of our electricity.

What I don't understand is why they don't focus on large cities with commuter related smog problems like LA, Chicago, DC and NY instead of mandating the requirement for the whole state. A state like California has large areas where traffic density is minimal and the number of commuters is low.

The next question is can our outdated power distribution system support the load imposed by a large number of EV's charging simultaneously? Look at what's happening in Texas and California. Are rotating blackouts next?

By the way has anyone noticed RV parks using meters for each site's electricity usage and charging accordingly on top of the rental fee??
We came across this a few weeks ago.

Safe travels

[move on]

Originally Posted by 1stimerveer

What I don't understand is why they don't focus on large cities with commuter related smog problems like LA, Chicago, DC and NY instead of mandating the requirement for the whole state. A state like California has large areas where traffic density is minimal and the number of commuters is low.

I agree. Actually New York, DC and Chicago already have clean air. They have wind and rain and nature cleans it up regularly. It's only LA that has a pollution problem. The reason is that LA has a hot stagnant air mass that hangs over the valley and pollution is allowed to build up. If they think they need EVs to transfer their tailpipe emissions to power plants in Arizona then they should go ahead with that. The problem, though, is that the EPA has been mandated to take their marching orders from CARB and the rest of us now have to put up with needless wasteful California air standards.

[Warhorse6]

Suspect my rv days will long be over by then, but never had any plan to go to California again anyway. That said this is a repeat of the field of dreams. Worked the first time and never again. I’m all for a cleaner environment, but until there is a transition plan to turn this dream into reality, going to be a lot of pain for folks. You simply can’t declare it. Not sure how many times we need to learn the same lesson.

[tap4154]

Originally Posted by move on

I agree. Actually New York, DC and Chicago already have clean air. They have wind and rain and nature cleans it up regularly. It's only LA that has a pollution problem. The reason is that LA has a hot stagnant air mass that hangs over the valley and pollution is allowed to build up. If they think they need EVs to transfer their tailpipe emissions to power plants in Arizona then they should go ahead with that. The problem, though, is that the EPA has been mandated to take their marching orders from CARB and the rest of us now have to put up with needless wasteful California air standards.

Los Angeles has cleaned up a lot. I remember as a kid back in the '60s driving into Los Angeles with my family, and we couldn't even see the local mountains, because it was so heavy with smog. I literally have this picture in my mind that even a half mile off the freeway you could barely make out the signs of the businesses, because the brown was so thick. However the LA Basin has always been known as the "valley of smoke" by Native Americans, because natural fires would cause pollution to settle in the basin, and an inversion layer would hold it in.

I think the average age of the 54 nuclear plants we have operating in America is about 40 years. It's about time to move forward and modernize those.

[TXiceman]

Originally Posted by Warhorse6

Suspect my rv days will long be over by then, but never had any plan to go to California again anyway. That said this is a repeat of the field of dreams. Worked the first time and never again. I’m all for a cleaner environment, but until there is a transition plan to turn this dream into reality, going to be a lot of pain for folks. You simply can’t declare it. Not sure how many times we need to learn the same lesson.

And the problem is we do not have a transition plan to go to EVs. Currently we do not have the generating capacity to handle the extreme summer or extreme winder demands on the electric grid WITHOUT the addition of the recharging demand from the EVs. Additionally, most of the power in this country is still and for the foreseeable future is generated by coal fire power plants. First, we need a plan to get more wind and solar plants online. More nuclear plants would help with the transition.

The California dream is just a big pipe dream until the whole country produces a real transition plan. But for now, I will not worry about it. By 2035, if I am still alive I will most likely be in an electric wheelchair of a mobility scooter so I will have my electric vehicle.

Ken

[move on]

Originally Posted by tap4154

Los Angeles has cleaned up a lot. I remember as a kid back in the '60s driving into Los Angeles with my family, and we couldn't even see the local mountains, because it was so heavy with smog. I literally have this picture in my mind that even a half mile off the freeway you could barely make out the signs of the businesses, because the brown was so thick. However the LA Basin has always been known as the "valley of smoke" by Native Americans, because natural fires would cause pollution to settle in the basin, and an inversion layer would hold it in.

I think the average age of the 54 nuclear plants we have operating in America is about 40 years. It's about time to move forward and modernize those.

I have noticed the same problem in Mexico City. Years ago you could hardly breathe there. Thick black smoke poured out of city busses and as a pedestrian you came home with a film of pollution on your skin. Now it has cleaned up tremendously, and it happened without an EPA. It is due to largely to natural engineering advances in the combustion process (high pressure direct injection, turbocharging, computerization). It will continue to improve on its own. In the US the average diesel engine is 14 years old. Once they're gone the air will be even cleaner. Maybe then we can disband the EPA. LOL

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by tap4154

All of those were very old technology, and Chernobyl did not have a containment building. Pebble bed technology is completely different. They are modular plants that can be constructed fairly quickly. In fact the "pebbles" are self-contained. I live just a mile away from some old gas-powered plants built in the 1950s, one of which is still running, and a latest generation plant is sitting right next to it. I'd be absolutely fine if those were pebble bed reactors. By the way the old plants were supposed to be torn down, but they fired one of them back up because we still need it.

That sounds like the old SCE Huntington Beach Generating Station....worked there in 1980's

[Spdracr39]

This thread is about the new law in California. Lets keep the discussion on that topic please.

[tap4154]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

That sounds like the old SCE Huntington Beach Generating Station....worked there in 1980's

Yes, we "spoke" about it here before. Still running, at least the south one is.

[tap4154]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

That sounds like the old SCE Huntington Beach Generating Station....worked there in 1980's

Not to go too far off topic, but I just went for a bike ride and thought I'd show you your former workplace, next to the new plant.

[rarebear.nm]

Originally Posted by TXiceman

And the problem is we do not have a transition plan to go to EVs. Currently we do not have the generating capacity to handle the extreme summer or extreme winder demands on the electric grid WITHOUT the addition of the recharging demand from the EVs. Additionally, most of the power in this country is still and for the foreseeable future is generated by coal fire power plants. First, we need a plan to get more wind and solar plants online. More nuclear plants would help with the transition.

The California dream is just a big pipe dream until the whole country produces a real transition plan. But for now, I will not worry about it. By 2035, if I am still alive I will most likely be in an electric wheelchair of a mobility scooter so I will have my electric vehicle.

Ken

For some time now natural gas been the leading energy source for electric generation. Coal is about 20% behind and continues to decline every year. Nuclear and coal are running very close. On March 29 2022, the U.S. Energy Information Administration, announced the first time wind output had ever simultaneously exceeded coal and nuclear over a 24-hour period. Making it second only to natural gas.


The International Energy Agency (IEA) projects that wind and solar combined will exceed capacity of natural gas, coal and nuclear by 2024. Things are changing very fast. That's why I say don't project the future only based on historical numbers. What's important is the slope (rate of change) for each energy source.


Following is a table energy sources taken from the U.S. Energy Information Administration.


U.S. utility-scale electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 2021. Preliminary data as of February 2022
Energy source Billion kWh Share of total





Just click on the above image to read it easier.


None of these changes the need for greater battery energy density. Work on lithium batteries started in the early 1970's and was not a commercial product until 1991. World wide there is a great deal of research in making better batteries. I think at some point someone will crack the major issues and that will be a game changer. I'm not suggesting when that may be.

[bentjm]

Originally Posted by move on

Nuclear is the only way to go. If we ever get to the point where we have an excess of nuclear generated electricity to get rid of then maybe we can start thinking about EVs. There are a couple of 4th generation experimental reactors being funded now. One is a pebble bed reactor the other is a molten salt reactor. Both are perfectly safe, low waste designs that can't be used for weapons materials. I hope they work. If so we can move on to industrial scale units and then maybe by 2050 or 2060 we can start deploying them in old coal plants. Hopefully we will also move beyond this unworkable obsolete ecologically unfriendly lithium-ion NMC big bloated battery design. Then I might place an order for an EV in 2070.

Nothing is perfectly safe.

My brother is a retired nuclear engineer. We have had many, many discussions about his profession and everything that has been learned over the years. There are interesting new concepts out there. Concepts and reality are often not the same.

All of this will be worked out long after I have left this planet.

[Lt Dan]

Second Reminder

The topic of this thread is the California law ending gasoline car sales, not power generation, nuclear energy, etc. Please stay on topic or the thread will be closed.

Thanks to all posting within the rules and on topic.