Charging Stations

[dbircky]

Interesting reads on the conflicts in providing profitable charging stations.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...cture-00063398

For those who need it, charging points are important. But, will the campgrounds be able to recoup the added costs and will they be allowed to?
I’ve stayed at Ashland Resort in WV. They sell gasoline in the campground. However it is at a significant price increase for the convenience and the added expense the campground took on.

https://www.rvtravel.com/andy-zipser...lephant-1078b/

[Warhorse6]

Going to be a delicate balance between EV and fossil fuel vehicles for a long time to come. I’m sure they will be a lot of course corrections along the way.

[Arch Hoagland]

Originally Posted by Warhorse6

Going to be a delicate balance between EV and fossil fuel vehicles for a long time to come. I’m sure they will be a lot of course corrections along the way.

In a nutshell that covers it.

[radar]

Personally we avoid chargers at gas stations and gravitate more to chargers at malls or shopping centres. It’s easy to kill 15 or 20 minutes picking up a few things you need or hit a good coffee place at those locations. And generally the only time one uses DC fast charge stations are on road trips. The vast majority of charging is done at home and in increasing amounts at work.

[roadlifer]

So many questions and hesitations about charging costs, usage in cold weather, and availability of chargers on the road. I'm not sure that this is going anywhere good... I'm just waiting for charging costs to through the roof on the road.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by roadlifer

So many questions and hesitations about charging costs, usage in cold weather, and availability of chargers on the road. I'm not sure that this is going anywhere good... I'm just waiting for charging costs to through the roof on the road.

First, welcome to iRV2!

There are commercial charging stations now; I'm not seeing "hesitation" in building out charging capacity, more likely there is significant lead time in acquiring the needed equipment, land, permits, and local electrical distribution infrastructure.

Read posts by Radar here on the forums, he's been operating EVs (towing a camper, too) in Canada for several years. He's got a balanced perspective about cold weather and charger availability.

Currently (pun intended) there is no evidence of "through the roof" charging fees and with more charging stations coming online every month, there is a theoretical "market" limitation to fees. If the chargers are all owned by the same company, that's a different (and legal issue) matter. Radar's observations have been that the higher the charge speed/voltage, the higher the fees. "Good, fast, cheap - pick any two" applies to lots of things in life.

[BayRunner]

Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy

First, welcome to iRV2!

There are commercial charging stations now; I'm not seeing "hesitation" in building out charging capacity, more likely there is significant lead time in acquiring the needed equipment, land, permits, and local electrical distribution infrastructure.

Read posts by Radar here on the forums, he's been operating EVs (towing a camper, too) in Canada for several years. He's got a balanced perspective about cold weather and charger availability.

Currently (pun intended) there is no evidence of "through the roof" charging fees and with more charging stations coming online every month, there is a theoretical "market" limitation to fees. If the chargers are all owned by the same company, that's a different (and legal issue) matter. Radar's observations have been that the higher the charge speed/voltage, the higher the fees. "Good, fast, cheap - pick any two" applies to lots of things in life.

There is a lot of gray area when it comes to fees on private chargers in parking lots and such. However, properties such as campgrounds, marinas, apartments and such are restricted to the fee charged by their local utility company. This fee cap is related to the per kw fee. If a property charged more then they are considered a utility source and falls in a completely different category and complexity. Most properties are not aware of this and I have seen many get caught doing so. Luckily in all these cases I have witnessed, the local municipality simply told them to correct their pricing without any recourse or paperwork. However, the big loop hole is that properties may charge additional fees such as meter reading fees, administration fees and service fees as long as they are within reason.

[atreis]

Originally Posted by roadlifer

So many questions and hesitations about charging costs, usage in cold weather, and availability of chargers on the road. I'm not sure that this is going anywhere good... I'm just waiting for charging costs to through the roof on the road.

I live in a cold state, and had no issues charging in the winter, or summer. (My car has battery pre-heating for winter charging.) I do expect prices will need to go up some for charging to be profitable for the companies providing it. Tesla has raised their prices, and are likely on the right track there. EA, EVGo, ChargePoint, etc. will likely also need to raise them a little too. Fortunately, as more people use them, the needed increase to cover installation and maintenance will get averaged out over more use and won't need to be as high.

[atreis]

Originally Posted by BayRunner

There is a lot of gray area when it comes to fees on private chargers in parking lots and such. However, properties such as campgrounds, marinas, apartments and such are restricted to the fee charged by their local utility company. This fee cap is related to the per kw fee. If a property charged more then they are considered a utility source and falls in a completely different category and complexity. Most properties are not aware of this and I have seen many get caught doing so. Luckily in all these cases I have witnessed, the local municipality simply told them to correct their pricing without any recourse or paperwork. However, the big loop hole is that properties may charge additional fees such as meter reading fees, administration fees and service fees as long as they are within reason.

A solution I've seen used a lot for this is to charge a time-based parking fee through the charger company. A lot of Level 2 ChargePoint installations I've used do this. Many Level 2 and DCFC will also charge extra if people stay (blocking the charger) after charging has completed.

[radar]

Looks like ford is the first to switch to the tesla plug and do a deal for supercharger access. I wouldn’t be surprised if Rivian is next. It’s an obvious choice.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...hargers--.html

[kmackenzie]

Charging is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to purchase an EV. How long would it take to charge a standard electric SUV? We sometimes take a second vehicle on RV trips so we can park up and still pop out for some sightseeing. I'm hoping an EV will make this more cost-effective. What do you all think? While it's probably more cost-effective and better for the environment, I'm concerned it's not reliable.

[radar]

Originally Posted by kmackenzie

Charging is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to purchase an EV. How long would it take to charge a standard electric SUV? We sometimes take a second vehicle on RV trips so we can park up and still pop out for some sightseeing. I'm hoping an EV will make this more cost-effective. What do you all think? While it's probably more cost-effective and better for the environment, I'm concerned it's not reliable.

Howdy. Lots of variable there. I guess the key word is “depends”. But a typical Tesla model Y supercharge for us is 15 to 20 minutes. With non superchargers I suppose it depends on the speed of the charger.

We are on a tour thru BC with our EV SUV towing our trailer right now. We have only used commercial charging once in this trip and it was on a lunch break so we deliberately chose a slower non tesla charger so we would have enough time to eat and walk the chihuahua. Most of our charging has been in campgrounds on this trip but on our cross country trip it was mostly superchargers. We typically spend two or three nights in each location so it’s just a background activity for us.

Hope that helps.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by kmackenzie

Charging is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to purchase an EV. How long would it take to charge a standard electric SUV? We sometimes take a second vehicle on RV trips so we can park up and still pop out for some sightseeing. I'm hoping an EV will make this more cost-effective. What do you all think? While it's probably more cost-effective and better for the environment, I'm concerned it's not reliable.

"It depends."

Are you a road warrior who simply must put 500 miles between locations every day? If so, there is no current EV that will equal or better the time needed for liquid fueling.

How long charging takes depends on money, mostly. If an EV is capable of high speed charging, you can use that or lower capacity chargers and take more time when you have it.

My suggestion for EV charging in recreational use is to use bulk, paid charging stations and "top off" the charge at the destination, if needed. Charging time depends on 2 things - the available power at the charging station, and how much charge you need to add to the battery (which is directly related to how much you use the vehicle). Folks driving 75 miles or less can usually charge a car overnight on a regular 20 amp circuit.

The EVs can tell you their state of charge, where the commercial charging stations are, and how to get to them. I sense a lot of folks fearing they'll run out of charge in a remote location. Sure, that's possible, but so is running out of liquid fuels. Both are dealt with the same way - make sure you're fueled up and know where the next "juice" is available.

Good luck and safe travels.