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View Poll Results: When your EV battery wears out, what will you do?
I currently own an EV and I'll replace the battery when the time comes 5 12.50%
I don't own an EV but if I did I'd replace the battery when the time comes 2 5.00%
I'll get rid of the car (trade-in, sell, etc.) before the battery needs replacing 7 17.50%
I'll keep the EV till the battery dies and buy another EV, take my loss then (sell, trade-in, etc.) 1 2.50%
I don't own an EV and don't have to make this decision 25 62.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-23-2023, 02:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky View Post
Tesla says the battery is good for the life of the car? What does that mean? Once the battery is done so is the car, or once the car is done so is the battery? Thinking due to the costs of replacement of a battery in a bev would exceed the value of the bev, when the battery degrades enough throw out the car.
my son had the batteries replaced in his model 3 due to an accident.total cost was 17k.hardly worth throwing the car away.ins didn't write it off.
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Old 03-23-2023, 03:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootist View Post
Tires wear a lot quicker due to the weight, that and sitting around for 30 minutes while the thing charges are the only major daily drawbacks. Both of which will keep me from ever wanting one. And anything with a lot of weight is not going to get charged in the stations we have now. A Tesla semi requires the same amount of juice as a Walmart superstore uses. For around town, just fine. But I have zero use for a car and the pickups can’t tow beans.
how heavy do you think they are? my wifes Y is 1800 kilograms.that's the same or even less than a mid sized sedan with much better weight distribution.if your tires are prematurely wearing it's because of how it's being driven.lots of misinformation being tossed around.
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Old 03-23-2023, 04:09 PM   #31
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The new y is 2050 kilos. 1 motor. Comparable to a Lexus RS350 in weight. But Iím not going to argue, plenty of data and articles on the subject.
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Old 03-23-2023, 04:15 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by TandW View Post
Does anyone know if the internal resistance of EV batteries goes up with long-time usage? If so, wouldn't this lead to progressively inefficient recharging or longer charging times?
Tesla in particular uses a round regular looking battery, hundreds of them. The only difference in a high draw on lithium batteries vs low draws like an inverter in a motorhome is they bottom balance batteries under automobile type loads instead of top balance. Being the genius Elon is , his might do both I donít know. So look up normal lithium technologies for your answer. And not lifepo4 lithium, itís too heavy for practical cars to use.
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Old 03-23-2023, 05:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by shootist View Post
You assume much, my best friend was driving an ev before you ever heard of them.
I was into them back in the 80ís but OK - still, having a friend with an EV isnít the same as using one daily, feel free to disagree.

Quote:
No ev is going to be worth spit at towing Ö 1400 miles is a nonstop trip for me
Bah, youíre an extreme case, few drive like that on any basis. But itís a poor bet to say that tripling battery density isnít going to happen.

Cheers -
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Old 03-23-2023, 05:41 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by shootist View Post
The new y is 2050 kilos. 1 motor. Comparable to a Lexus RS350 in weight. But Iím not going to argue, plenty of data and articles on the subject.
Then you should be able to post a few.

There's not a significant weight difference. That's a myth. As you mention, it's easy enough to look up.
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Old 03-23-2023, 05:59 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by propchef View Post
Then you should be able to post a few.

There's not a significant weight difference. That's a myth. As you mention, it's easy enough to look up.
Keeping in mind there are various models and versions of the model Y.

Long range all wheel drive dual motor.
Standard range rear wheel drive one motor.
Performance dual motor.
Texas 4680 standard range.

Etc etc.

The weight varies by a few hundred pounds between them. They are built in three different factories on two continents.
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Old 03-23-2023, 06:05 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by radar View Post
Keeping in mind there are various models and versions of the model Y.

Long range all wheel drive dual motor.
Standard range rear wheel drive one motor.
Performance dual motor.
Texas 4680 standard range.

Etc etc.

The weight varies by a few hundred pounds between them. They are built in three different factories on two continents.
Understood. But this keeps coming up and it isn't close to accurate. EVs don't wear out tires any faster than an ICE vehicle, and on average they don't weigh any more than an ICE vehicle that has an iron block and a 25-gallon fuel tank.


It's just more FUD.
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Old 03-23-2023, 06:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by propchef View Post
Understood. But this keeps coming up and it isn't close to accurate. EVs don't wear out tires any faster than an ICE vehicle, and on average they don't weigh any more than an ICE vehicle that has an iron block and a 25-gallon fuel tank.


It's just more FUD.
Yah I agree. Our model Y is a few hundred pounds heavier than something like a grand Cherokee. We sold our model 3 with a little over 40,000 kilometres. Tread was still ok. Our current model Y is a little over a year old and we have a little over 20,000 kilometres on it. It’s going thru the tires faster but of the 20,000 kilometres on it at least 15200 is towing our trailer so more tire wear is expected. We have to stay on top of the tire rotation for sure.

Probably the biggest reason people go thru tires faster is the accelerator pedal. . Way fun. Most are faster than muscle cars. Our EV SUV does zero to 60 mph in 4 seconds. It does it in 8 seconds pulling our trailer. . Crazy fast.

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Old 03-24-2023, 07:14 AM   #38
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Didn't vote. None of the poll responses reflect the current state of EV batteries. In a modern EV with proper liquid cooling (not the Leaf) the battery should outlive the rest of the car and be usable for other purposes afterwards. I plan to trade my EV in, the same as I do all my cars, at around 200K miles.
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Old 03-26-2023, 03:35 PM   #39
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We have a lot of experience owning Tesla vehicles.

We purchased our first Model S in January 2013, one of the first Tesla vehicles in Texas (we had people taking pictures when we were at stop lights and asking questions when we parked). For a short time, Tesla was going to offer a battery replacement plan - where you could pre-pay to purchase a future replacement battery - and quickly discontinued that program.

With our first Model S, we saw some battery degradation, but it wasn't that significant. The biggest issue with the early production Model S vehicles was shorter range - we effectively had around 175 miles of highway range and had to stop more frequently to recharge on trips.

Our second Tesla was a 2017 Tesla Model S 100D - the first 100D delivered in Texas. Which we followed a year later with a 2018 Model X 100D. Both of these vehicles have lost some charge - but overall the loss hasn't been that significant - and have at least 250 miles of driving at full highway speeds. That gives us over 3 hours of driving before stopping for a charge - and that's good for us, since we prefer to take periodic breaks on long drives.

Tesla has done a pretty good job in the design of their battery packs and charging systems, to protect the batteries. We generally charge only to 90% and avoid dropping the charge below 10%. We also only do rapid "supercharging" on road trips, instead doing most of our charging on a 50A circuit overnight. Only doing supercharging could accelerate battery decline.

Based on overall owner experience, the Tesla batteries appear to decline 5-10% in the first year or two, and then stabilize at that level for a long time.

So battery cost shouldn't be a factor for most people and loss of range shouldn't be a major concern, as long as you follow reasonable charging practiices.

Tesla vehicles don't really have a standard maintenance cycle - you basically take it in for service only if something isn't working. And when you do need service about 80% of the work can be done using their mobile service, where they can come to your home or office to do the service, including tire replacement.

Of course, there are some expensive components that can fail, so to protect ourselves from those larger expenses, we purchased an additional 4 year extended warranty, beyond Tesla's standard 4 year warranty. And those warranties include towing to the nearest Tesla service center.

Overall, we're very satisfied with the cost of ownership. Buying a Tesla did cost us more up front than purchasing a comparable ICE. But (for us) refueling was free because we have a "free nights" electricity plan and other than tire replacements, haven't had any significant maintenance costs..

HOWEVER... When we purchased our Class A a few months ago, we had to trade in our Model S and purchased a Jeep Grand Cherokee, because you can't flat tow a Tesla (or any other EV). We looked into other options for bringing our Model S on trips (including having a second driver chasing the RV in the Tesla) - but when we couldn't find a solution we were comfortable with (putting it on a trailer would have been too much of a hassle), we swapped our Tesla for a Jeep - and back to driving two non-EVs on trips...
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Old 03-26-2023, 04:57 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by BillJinOR View Post
The battery doesn’t “fail” normally at any planed time. It degrades its capacity ( miles it can go). If it degrades to 80% in 8 years that’s the time people (?) think it needs replaced ? Instead of going 300 miles it can only go 240 miles .. plenty for many daily commuters. Absolutely no reason to replace. All scare tactics.
Well now that all depends on what kind of range is needed. First, is 300 really 300? GMC claims 329 miles for its Hummer EV, but check out the Car and Driver EV towing review where they tow a 6100 pound trailer. When towing, the Hummer drops to 140 while the Ford Lightning gets only 100 and the Rivian only 110. So when the $115k Hummer's battery is at 80% thats down to 110 and the Ford is down to only 80. Oh, and the low battery warnings start going off when the system figures you have 50 mile left...which would be at only 30 miles in the Ford with 80% capacity.

At its best, the Hummer can't go as far as my gas engine RAM 2500 and it's "re-fuel" time is measured in hours rather than minutes like my Ram.

I think these are fair comparisons given that this is an RV forum.

Then there is charge time



https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ian-lightning/
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Old 03-26-2023, 05:51 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by bokobird View Post

If I had to replace an ICE engine, worse case it might cost me $5k with someone doing all the work.
That's way low. I recently (early fall '22) had to do that. At the time, there wasn't a single crate engine available in the entire country for my vehicle (supply chain) so I had to have the original engine rebuilt.

The shop I use is very thorough, and their price includes a new radiator, hoses, belts, etc. - anything that could affect the life of the engine - and the OTD price was $14K with a 5/50 warranty.

That was about $1000 higher than a crate engine would have cost if they could have gotten one, but I think I'm a little happier with a rebuild done by a good local machine shop.

If you haven't had a rebuild done in a while, you might think I got ripped off, but I assure you I didn't. My family has been going to that shop for a couple generations, and they do excellent, honest work. They are a bit above average in pricing for the area, but are worth it. Plus, it's a southern California major metro area, and stuff just costs more here than it does in a lot of places.

I can't imagine you getting the same quality work for less than 10K anywhere, and probably closer to 12K.

Now, if you're talking about just throwing in a crate engine and reusing all the old bolt-on parts (other than the timing set and water pump, which you should absolutely replace anyway while you're in there), then yeah, maybe more like 8K - but I'm skeptical even on that. Labor is expensive. A crate engine alone is over 4K at the very lowest price - and that's not something where I would go with the low bidder - and it's just a V6 in a minivan. A V8 or high-performance V6 would cost more.

The only way you could possibly replace an engine for 5K is if you did 100% of the work yourself, and even then, the peripheral parts involved in doing it right likely cost over $1000, and I'm assuming already having all tools, including a cherrypicker.
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Old 03-27-2023, 04:12 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by DRAGN83 View Post
Well now that all depends on what kind of range is needed. First, is 300 really 300? GMC claims 329 miles for its Hummer EV, but check out the Car and Driver EV towing review where they tow a 6100 pound trailer. When towing, the Hummer drops to 140 while the Ford Lightning gets only 100 and the Rivian only 110. So when the $115k Hummer's battery is at 80% thats down to 110 and the Ford is down to only 80. Oh, and the low battery warnings start going off when the system figures you have 50 mile left...which would be at only 30 miles in the Ford with 80% capacity.

At its best, the Hummer can't go as far as my gas engine RAM 2500 and it's "re-fuel" time is measured in hours rather than minutes like my Ram.

I think these are fair comparisons given that this is an RV forum.

Then there is charge time



https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ian-lightning/
Towing with an EV isn't really practical until range (when not towing) is at least 500 miles at highway speeds, because the additional weight when towing significantly reduces the range. Plus most charging stations aren't configured to charge an EV that is towing, so you'd have to disconnect and reconnect the towed vehicle every time when charging.

Tesla's Cybertruck is supposed to have the longer range that could make towing ) reasonable.

Plus, there may be some RVs coming out in the next few years that are also all electric with their own drive motor, which could help improve EV range when towing (though that means you'd have to charge two vehicles, in addition to having to disconnect/reconnect when charging).

When we purchased our Model X with over 300 miles of range, we looked at options for towing - and decided that having to stop every 150 miles to charge (and disconnect/reconnect) wasn't something we wanted to deal with.

Though with Tesla's Semi and Cybertruck coming to market with larger battery packs and even faster supercharging, we could see an all electric RV based on those technologies, which could be very interesting - but come with a higher purchase price due to the cost of the batteries...
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