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View Poll Results: When your EV battery wears out, what will you do?
I currently own an EV and I'll replace the battery when the time comes 5 12.50%
I don't own an EV but if I did I'd replace the battery when the time comes 2 5.00%
I'll get rid of the car (trade-in, sell, etc.) before the battery needs replacing 7 17.50%
I'll keep the EV till the battery dies and buy another EV, take my loss then (sell, trade-in, etc.) 1 2.50%
I don't own an EV and don't have to make this decision 25 62.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2023, 09:57 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by bokobird View Post
I have a problem with high power cars, another reason I can't own a Tesla...what's that problem? Something goes wrong with my feet and they become uncontrollable

Where I live, the cost of electricity is around 25 cents a kwh, which is why I have a 6k solar array on my roof. Electricity is not cheap and with my usage of electricity, I still have a $200 electric bill (computers and battery backups consume lots of watts).

And a friend did let me drive their Tesla, it's very quick, but what good is that during rush hour? Same with high powered V8's, they're useless in todays traffic for commuters. My 4-banger will go from 0-60 fast enough to merge into any traffic, new 4-bangers are not your grandfathers Volkswagen.
All good points. To each his own.
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:09 PM   #16
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Tires wear a lot quicker due to the weight, that and sitting around for 30 minutes while the thing charges are the only major daily drawbacks. Both of which will keep me from ever wanting one. And anything with a lot of weight is not going to get charged in the stations we have now. A Tesla semi requires the same amount of juice as a Walmart superstore uses. For around town, just fine. But I have zero use for a car and the pickups can’t tow beans.
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:16 PM   #17
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Tesla says the battery is good for the life of the car? What does that mean? Once the battery is done so is the car, or once the car is done so is the battery? Thinking due to the costs of replacement of a battery in a bev would exceed the value of the bev, when the battery degrades enough throw out the car.
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dbircky View Post
Tesla says the battery is good for the life of the car? What does that mean? Once the battery is done so is the car, or once the car is done so is the battery? Thinking due to the costs of replacement of a battery in a bev would exceed the value of the bev, when the battery degrades enough throw out the car.
Hard to say. There are lots of older tesla taxis on the road with north of 400,000 kilometres. If the rest of the car is worn out at 600,000 kilometres is that good or bad. Depends on the drivers needs I guess. How long does it take the average person to put 500,000 kilometres on a car. We don’t keep ours anywhere close to that long but I’m sure someone somewhere will still be driving it. But if the battery l packs it in with that amount of kilometers I wouldn’t be putting in a new battery. Maybe a rebuild if it was cheap enough.

Jmho. Who knows how long they’ll last. The oldest teslas model S’s are 10 years old and the technology was completely different back then. Check back in 10 years.
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:39 PM   #19
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That is the thing with a Google search - you have to sort through the results and figure out what is fact and fiction. The 8 year lifespan story is fiction and has always been fiction. If it were true then all electric vehicles built before 2015 would now be junk and I can assure you there are very few EV's sitting in junkyards with dead batteries. Lots wrecked that were written off because the battery was damaged and it would be too expensive to replace and guarantee the battery and charging system, but almost none where the battery just wore out.

Fact - taxis who drive crazy numbers of miles every day and cycle the batteries multiple times a day routinely get very very good battery life.

Years ago we serviced taxis and police vehicles in the transmission shop I worked in. They get ridiculous amounts of use and abuse with multiple drivers and multiple shifts every day - police vehicles in particular get abused regularly. They both burned through transmissions and engines on a pretty regular basis. If they are getting three and four hundred thousand km out of a battery regular users will very likely exceed that.

The fact that Teslas are even still on the road after ten years as a taxi will tell you everything you need to know about battery longevity.

Anecdotes that a specific car is showing no or minor degradation after a couple of years is not significant evidence, but the fact that recyclers can't get enough used batteries is real evidence that EV batteries are just not failing on a regular basis.

The other thing that I rarely see is a whole bunch of people who have actually owned an EV coming on to these boards and confirming the stories about fires, poor battery life, how awful it is to own an EV because they have to spend so much time at charging stations every day and that the batteries die so quickly. It is almost without exception the exact opposite. Occasionally you will hear someone who bought an EV and it did not work out, mostly because they did not have access to home or work charging. Almost everyone else raves about the performance, ease of home charging, low maintenance and low cost of fuel. They are not all tree huggers and EV fanatics.
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Old 03-22-2023, 11:05 PM   #20
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Or cheaper to just write it off than fix it:
https://jalopnik.com/ev-battery-dama...ing-1850243294
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Old 03-22-2023, 11:22 PM   #21
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Because insurance companies are in it for profit so it is cheaper for them in the long term. Doesn't make it right at all and perhaps over time, the battery technology will make this a non-issue.

Taxis are not likely a good example for normal drivers since their whole concept of usage is a perfect fit for the EV technology. Shorter trips, easily swapped for a pre-charged vehicle, etc.

And I worded the "8" year thing the wrong way, I was really trying to cover what is warrantied, not that an EV battery suddenly dies after 8 years.

After your warranty is up, it's on your dime to pay for the battery and if the experience of 8, 10+ year old EVs pans out to be "no issue with the battery even on year 12", well, that'd be quite convincing to everyone that it's only the exception that a battery is required to be replaced, not an eventuality.

It'd be quite a concept to move away from the "throw-away" car because it's too old approach we have today...at some point you'll just be sitting in what amounts to a room traveling, watching some stream, etc. There won't be any need to "drive".
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Old 03-23-2023, 12:16 AM   #22
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I do not expect things I buy with a warranty to fail shortly after the warranty expires. Many ICE vehicles carry something like a 5 year or 50,000 mile warranty. How many of those fail right after that magical number?


Several computers I use are now are about 10 to 20 years olds with warranties that expired man years ago. Same with most everything else.


So I really fail to even see the point of judging EVs based on a battery warranty. Folks keep coming up with interesting ideas how to nay say the EV technology.
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Old 03-23-2023, 10:27 AM   #23
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Not a naysayer at all for EV's, go buy them if that fits your usage pattern. It doesn't fit mine and I find it interesting there is so much defense offered when others question the costs behind using the vehicles. I actually think EV's are neat and all, just not my cup of tea.

If anything, I'd think a thread like this is good to expose facts that there is very little compelling evidence that batteries in EV's fail, even after the warranty period. Would this not provide potential consumers more confidence in purchasing this technology if it fits their needs, thus spreading the usage?

Open conversation is a good thing, debating pluses and minuses is also a good thing. The attitudes of some EV owners seem to be if you don't think my way you're clearly wrong and therefore you're a naysayer.
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Old 03-23-2023, 11:20 AM   #24
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I agree with open exchange of ideas. That's is exactly how we all move forward. I'm all for the EV change. Last year when we bought a new car I considered an EV. However due to our present uses it did not fit our needs. We are retired, live in the southwest and our travel mileage is frequently too long for a single charge with few or no recharging places in route today.



If I was still doing daily trips into town it would not be a question, EV for sure. Right now I need my RAM 3500 diesel for the 5th wheeler and a ICE vehicle for other driving.


I fully expect my next new car will be an EV as the battery technology improves somewhat more.


I just get tired of the backward thinking that some people want to state.
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Old 03-23-2023, 11:27 AM   #25
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i didn't read all the posts,but by the time my Tesla batteries wear out there will be a better battery for an ev on the market.batteries as we know them are on the way out.there are batteries being developed that don't even use rare earth metals and are a fraction of the cost to build and last decades.
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Old 03-23-2023, 02:26 PM   #26
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Tires wear a lot quicker due to the weight
Do they, and what’s ‘a lot’? With all the other things not needed/don’t wear already mentioned (oil, water, moving parts, brakes …) it’s not saying a lot that the tires might wear out sooner - to some degree or another. Pretty minor.

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that and sitting around for 30 minutes while the thing charges are the only major daily drawbacks. Both of which will keep me from ever wanting one.
To be fair since you don’t own one you can’t fairly judge what it’s like to own one. Illustrated here - vast majority of EV owners charge at home for pennies overnight and never sit around for a half hour. And when traveling, that half hour is usually not enough for you to get a stretch and a bite. I have yet to find an owner who thinks this is a problem.

I’m not picking on you but it is true that with EV’s you really don’t know what its like until you’ve given it a try. There’s a million stories out there of some gear head who was given an EV for a weekend and came out of it a convert. Reason being people think they’re petrol/gear/piston enthusiasts when in reality they’re performance, features and capability enthusiasts.

Quote:
And anything with a lot of weight is not going to get charged in the stations we have now. A Tesla semi requires the same amount of juice as a Walmart superstore uses. For around town, just fine.
The Model T just came out and the man is complaining about a lack of gas stations Most people aren’t driving Semi’s, and charging is a non linear function so just looking at the headline number (1MW) doesn’t tell you much - that’s peak that is attained for a short while at best (with battery conditioned properly).

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But I have zero use for a car and the pickups can’t tow beans.
10k this year, Silverado has a version coming out soon with 20k. Seems like a lot to me especially considering this is still the early days. Regarding towing capacity EV’s destroy pistons due to the torque, power and vehicle weight, and you can put up to four motors in a vehicle compared to one engine.

Where EV’s need work (and all the R&D is going) is on battery energy density, and this is mainly for serious towing/hauling needs. Present technology is more than enough for passenger vehicles.
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Old 03-23-2023, 02:37 PM   #27
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Does anyone know if the internal resistance of EV batteries goes up with long-time usage? If so, wouldn't this lead to progressively inefficient recharging or longer charging times?
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Old 03-23-2023, 02:50 PM   #28
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Do they, and what’s ‘a lot’? With all the other things not needed/don’t wear already mentioned (oil, water, moving parts, brakes …) it’s not saying a lot that the tires might wear out sooner - to some degree or another. Pretty minor.



To be fair since you don’t own one you can’t fairly judge what it’s like to own one. Illustrated here - vast majority of EV owners charge at home for pennies overnight and never sit around for a half hour. And when traveling, that half hour is usually not enough for you to get a stretch and a bite. I have yet to find an owner who thinks this is a problem.

I’m not picking on you but it is true that with EV’s you really don’t know what its like until you’ve given it a try. There’s a million stories out there of some gear head who was given an EV for a weekend and came out of it a convert. Reason being people thing their petrol/gear/piston enthusiasts when in reality they’re performance, features and capability enthusiasts.



The Model T just came out and the man is complaining about a lack of gas stations Most people aren’t driving Semi’s, and charging is a non linear function to just looking at the headline number (1MW) doesn’t tell you much - that’s peak that is attained for a short while at best (with battery conditioned properly).



10k this year, Silverado has a version coming out soon with 20k. Seems like a lot to me especially considering this is still the early days. Regarding towing capacity EV’s destroy pistons due to the torque, power and vehicle weight, and you can put up to four motors in a vehicle compared to one engine.

Where EV’s need work (and all the R&D is going) is on battery energy density.
You assume much, my best friend was driving an ev before you ever heard of them. He still drives one 17 years later.
And the tire wear is close to double , look it up. No ev is going to be worth spit at towing. Battery density has to triple before it is viable. And charge time is ridiculous. In my driving it would add a day to my common car trips. 1400 miles is a nonstop trip for me, adding an extra 2 hours would be a lot on top of the 21 it already takes. Not to mention sitting around stuffing my face for that 1/2 hour would ruin my ability to safely stay awake. You can’t eat and drive long distances. I’ve done 1800 hundred mile 2x nonstop. Hate motels and hotels is the biggest reason, never got a decent nights sleep in one. Toyota is the last manufacturer to start building ev’s and they clearly admit it’s politically motivated pressure. They’re hybrids are still the best so it isn’t an engineering challenge. But I hope more people do buy ev’s. Keeps oil that much cheaper for the rest of us.
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