EV Maintenance Costs

[Ludo]

I just read an article about a guy in the UK, he has an 8 yrs old Mercedes BEV, worth ~15k$, now his battery died, new battery ~18k$.


I had a Prius II a couple of years back, and before I bought it I asked the dealer what would happen if the battery broke down.
He showed me the manual, the battery could be disassembled to the single cells, one cell was ~65$. Of course this was NiCad.

[rreiner]

I currently own severl Electric and Hybrid cars
2012 Ford Focus-100 percent electric-luckily bought extended warranty and the battery system went out at 75,000 but Ford replaced the entire system and now the car has 163000 on it-no other costs other than tires.
2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid-135000 and still glong strong-only tires when needed
2017 Ford Fusion Energi-70000 and still going strong
2023 Tesla-no issues
Electirc not for everyone but great when you have Solar for sure

[propchef]

Originally Posted by Ludo

I just read an article about a guy in the UK, he has an 8 yrs old Mercedes BEV, worth ~15k$, now his battery died, new battery ~18k$.


I had a Prius II a couple of years back, and before I bought it I asked the dealer what would happen if the battery broke down.
He showed me the manual, the battery could be disassembled to the single cells, one cell was ~65$. Of course this was NiCad.

You didn't read an article, you found a random post on Reddit. It was a Smart Car. Batteries have an 8-year warranty and they are made by Tesla.

What logic is there to pay $3k more than the replacement value for the ENTIRE VEHICLE just to replace the battery? Logic fail.

[Flyct]

Other than my F-450 which is used to tow our 5th wheel, my other vehicles are EVs Currently we own 2 Tesla Model Y's. Prior to that I owned several Nissan Leafs starting with in 2015.

We recently replaced our 2015 Lexus RX450h hybrid with the 2nd Tesla and gave the Lexus to our adult daughter and her husband.

The Tesla's charging infrastructure it the best. The Super Chargers are reliable and available.

EV bashing is getting old. It's amazing the myths I hear from people.

I have NEVER had any issues with any of the EV's.

Sign up online at tesla.com for a FREE Demo ride with a Tesla and you will be hooked.

[MAXEPR]

We have owned 3 Tesla's and have almost 7 years on the 2016 Model S. We get about 20% less life on our tires. My S weighs almost 5000 pounds (I put it on a scale). And it's very easy to put your foot down more than required, just because you can. Both of these are factors in tire wear.
EV's are not for everyone and we sold our Model 3 to buy a one ton GMC to tow our 5th wheel.
One poster here says he drives 1400 miles non-stop. We could never do that so maybe an EV isn't right for you. The average person drives 30-40 miles per day so we have a 80% full tank every morning (about 210 miles). We charge to 100% if we are going to have a long day. Battery degradation is about 10%. We have changed one 12V battery, 2 door handles, 2 window regulators, 2 sets of tires, and 2 cabin air filters. We are close to 75K on it. Most times the service is at our house or work.
Replacing the battery isn't something most EV people worry about once they get some knowledge. I know a lot of EV owners (many because of me), and I don't know one who has ever had a battery replacement. When I get near 300K on it I will probably start thinking about budgeting for it.

[bokobird]

Originally Posted by MAXEPR

We have owned 3 Tesla's and have almost 7 years on the 2016 Model S. We get about 20% less life on our tires. My S weighs almost 5000 pounds (I put it on a scale). And it's very easy to put your foot down more than required, just because you can. Both of these are factors in tire wear.
EV's are not for everyone and we sold our Model 3 to buy a one ton GMC to tow our 5th wheel.
One poster here says he drives 1400 miles non-stop. We could never do that so maybe an EV isn't right for you. The average person drives 30-40 miles per day so we have a 80% full tank every morning (about 210 miles). We charge to 100% if we are going to have a long day. Battery degradation is about 10%. We have changed one 12V battery, 2 door handles, 2 window regulators, 2 sets of tires, and 2 cabin air filters. We are close to 75K on it. Most times the service is at our house or work.
Replacing the battery isn't something most EV people worry about once they get some knowledge. I know a lot of EV owners (many because of me), and I don't know one who has ever had a battery replacement. When I get near 300K on it I will probably start thinking about budgeting for it.

Thanks for that feedback, it's a good example that very small things over time are what you needed to repair and nothing at all major.

Curious - is there really a 12v battery in the Tesla? I was wondering that the other night as well...

[radar]

Originally Posted by bokobird

Thanks for that feedback, it's a good example that very small things over time are what you needed to repair and nothing at all major.

Curious - is there really a 12v battery in the Tesla? I was wondering that the other night as well...

Yep. A small 12 volt battery. AGM on ours but the newer cars have LFP batteries.

[rarebear.nm]

Originally Posted by bokobird

Curious - is there really a 12v battery in the Tesla? I was wondering that the other night as well...

Yes I believe all EVs have a 12 volt battery to operate all of the standard components, lights, sound system, fans, etc. It gets recharged by a DC-DC charger from the high voltage battery pack.

[MAXEPR]

Originally Posted by bokobird

Thanks for that feedback, it's a good example that very small things over time are what you needed to repair and nothing at all major.

Curious - is there really a 12v battery in the Tesla? I was wondering that the other night as well...

Yes, a small 12V battery runs everything while the car is shutdown. It lasts about the same as a car battery. Ours made it 6 years before replacing. My wife's Model 3 lasted 3 years.

[rprochnow]

As EVs gain market share, battery pack repair and recycling will become viable with higher volumes.

Some battery packs are composed of smaller components (bricks), which might be individually repaired or replaced to restore range.

But, for most EV owners, as long as they follow charging guidelines, battery life shouldn't be a major concern.

[Overtaxed1]

Originally Posted by rprochnow

Towing with an EV isn't really practical until range (when not towing) is at least 500 miles at highway speeds, because the additional weight when towing significantly reduces the range. Plus most charging stations aren't configured to charge an EV that is towing, so you'd have to disconnect and reconnect the towed vehicle every time when charging.

Tesla's Cybertruck is supposed to have the longer range that could make towing ) reasonable.

There's no "magic" in range. 1-2KW/mile for towing. Low side for a small trailer, high side for a big one (like a camper/5er). If you want 500 mile towing range, you're going to need a 750-1500KW battery. Which, not surprisingly, is what the Tesla semi has on board (1000KW). That battery weighs around 10,000lbs.

Assuming you can work around the size/weight problem of the battery, the next problem is charging. A 1000KW battery on a 50A home charger takes ~3.5 days to charge. On a V4 Tesla charger, it's ~4 hours to charge.

When we move into towing applications, BEVs are just not there yet. They may not be there for a very long time, there are a lot of challenges to overcome. Battery technology has improved and continues to improve, but it's not like computers that have doubled in capacity every ~2 years, batteries are around 10 years between doubling of density. Forgetting the charging problem, you need about a 10X improvement; roughly 30-40 years to get the required number of doublings to get a 1MW battery into a standard vehicle (vs a semi).

[radar]

Originally Posted by Overtaxed1

There's no "magic" in range. 1-2KW/mile for towing. Low side for a small trailer, high side for a big one (like a camper/5er). If you want 500 mile towing range, you're going to need a 750-1500KW battery. Which, not surprisingly, is what the Tesla semi has on board (1000KW). That battery weighs around 10,000lbs.

Assuming you can work around the size/weight problem of the battery, the next problem is charging. A 1000KW battery on a 50A home charger takes ~3.5 days to charge. On a V4 Tesla charger, it's ~4 hours to charge.

When we move into towing applications, BEVs are just not there yet. They may not be there for a very long time, there are a lot of challenges to overcome. Battery technology has improved and continues to improve, but it's not like computers that have doubled in capacity every ~2 years, batteries are around 10 years between doubling of density. Forgetting the charging problem, you need about a 10X improvement; roughly 30-40 years to get the required number of doublings to get a 1MW battery into a standard vehicle (vs a semi).

I agree with most of that although I think the timeline will be sooner.

EV’s even with the current tech (and that coming in the next year or two like the GMC pickup, the Cybertruck and the long range Rivian) are fine for towing smaller type teardrop and smaller fiberglass type trailers. Thats a small part of the market right now but is growing. Mid size and larger trailers are better suited to gas and diesel tow vehicles and will be for years. But there is also no current push to replace them by manufacturers, or at least not that I have seen.

The charging infrastructure has a ways to go yet but it seems to be happening. I hope they keep adding trailer friendly stalls. We definitely need more of them. Most of the trailer friendly stalls we do encounter are aimed at the small 18 foot ish or small boat trailer customer. That’s fine as that’s primarily what EV’s who are towing pull.

[rprochnow]

When towing a travel trailer or driving a motorhome (that may also be towing a vehicle), a plug in EV would likely be acceptable with enough range for around 4 hours of driving time at highway speeds, or around 250 miles. Since you typically will want to keep the batteries between 10 to 90% charge, that means around 300 miles of range for the battery pack(0 to 100% charge).

A Cybertruck with 500 to 600 miles of range (when not towing) may be acceptable.

Charging would probably be done with 100A outlets (around 17KW per hour) at destinations (RV parks) and at much higher speeds (up to 1000KW per hour) at super or mega chargers.

The biggest challenge for viability will not be the battery pack size or range, but getting infrastructure in place at RV parks and along highways where RV's go to support charging.

And because RV's will need larger battery packs, that's going to lag behind getting charging support for passenger EVs. And for larger Class A and C motorhomes, it's going to take even longer and need the same support as semis.

[hemifoot]

you guys do realize that the major tire manufacturers do make an ev specific tire,right?