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Old 05-13-2022, 02:33 PM   #99
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Take a look at the Mercedes F-1 engine for example. It recently set a record as the first gasoline powered engine to achieve over 50% thermal efficiency
And when will that engine tech be in an RV? Not never in my lifetime.
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Old 05-13-2022, 02:41 PM   #100
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And when will that engine tech be in an RV? Not never in my lifetime.
It has some interesting features that you may very well be seeing in production engines. The most important one in my opinion is the MGU-H (motor generator unit-Heat). They took the turbocharger impeller and attached it to a generator that is used to charge a battery. From there the energy can be used to run the turbocharger, supplement the drive unit, run accessories, etc. In effect it is capturing the waste energy in the exhaust that would otherwise be lost.
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:07 PM   #101
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Anyone remember Smokey Yunich's Adiabatic Engine?
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Old 05-13-2022, 06:00 PM   #102
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Anyone remember Smokey Yunich's Adiabatic Engine?
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Old 05-13-2022, 10:04 PM   #103
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Anyone remember Smokey Yunich's Adiabatic Engine?
Good question. It seemed to just disappear. With todays materials, it might just work. But still be a dreaded ICE!
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Old 05-14-2022, 08:36 AM   #104
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It has some interesting features that you may very well be seeing in production engines. The most important one in my opinion is the MGU-H (motor generator unit-Heat). They took the turbocharger impeller and attached it to a generator that is used to charge a battery. From there the energy can be used to run the turbocharger, supplement the drive unit, run accessories, etc. In effect it is capturing the waste energy in the exhaust that would otherwise be lost.
Forgive me but tapping into the turbocharger to turn a generator still takes power that the engine needs to provide. Are they saying it takes less energy to turn an alternator off a turbocharger than using a belt?
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Old 05-14-2022, 09:36 AM   #105
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Forgive me but tapping into the turbocharger to turn a generator still takes power that the engine needs to provide. Are they saying it takes less energy to turn an alternator off a turbocharger than using a belt?
The idea is that there is a lot of energy in the exhaust that usually is lost. A typical turbocharger captures some of it but there is still a lot that goes out the exhaust pipe. By using a motor/generator connected to a battery you can capture a lot more of it and you can feed it back into the turbocharger from the battery when the engine is just starting to rev up, when the typical turbocharger does not produce enough pressure, thereby reducing turbo lag and improving the torque curve. When the engine is up to speed and can no longer benefit from additional turbocharger pressure that extra energy goes into the battery, instead of the exhaust, where it can be used to supplement the engine's power.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:14 AM   #106
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The idea is that there is a lot of energy in the exhaust that usually is lost. A typical turbocharger captures some of it but there is still a lot that goes out the exhaust pipe. By using a motor/generator connected to a battery you can capture a lot more of it and you can feed it back into the turbocharger from the battery when the engine is just starting to rev up, when the typical turbocharger does not produce enough pressure, thereby reducing turbo lag and improving the torque curve. When the engine is up to speed and can no longer benefit from additional turbocharger pressure that extra energy goes into the battery, instead of the exhaust, where it can be used to supplement the engine's power.
This is why, in F1, they don't call them engines anymore. They are "power units".
Exhaust energy is free energy.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:09 PM   #107
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Mercedes is making money whether they build ICEVs or BEVs. They really don't care.

If you have been following the atmospheric carbon debate you will see that it is far from settled. In fact we have data that shows we're probably headed towards another ice age. So, carbon is really not an issue at this point.

You are wrong about the efficiency of an electric drive train. There is lots of disinformation being put out there so I don't really blame you. Typically, a mechanical drive train loses about 6% in heat loss, while an electric drive train (generation, step-up transformer, transmission losses, step down transformer, battery charging, battery discharging, motors, etc) loses 30 to 40%.
I don't blame you either. You're listening and reading all the American propaganda on this subject, derived from partisan leaning outlets.
You are right that Mercedes doesn't need the money. So what's your point? why even bring that up? America is the one that's all about the money, it's part of out DNA. Mercedes is still doing it money or no money.
Oh wait, Aaaargh it's a Big Conspiracy, right? lol
Yeah, yeah, we have this data and that data. But the Irrefutable data that we DO have is that our Emissions are WAAAY to high and need Lessening. The Irrefutable data that we do have is that 70% of Millennials and Gen Z'ers care about carbon Emissions and WANT change. What Is Irrefutable is that We have more wild fires now, More flooding now, more Hurricanes and tornadoes. We used to have Hurricane season...Now it's all yr long. So yeah you can go to every Seminar and collect ALL the data you want, but that's not going to change what's happening. So unless you and your data can come up with a Much better explanation than an "Ice Age" Which every scientist Knows happens every 20K year, EV technology is/will/ should be pursued.
As for drive trains. Oh man, it's obvious you are not an Electro Mechanical engineer because in your statement you seem to use Drive Train and Power train as if they were the same. Sorry dude you are way off. But I don't blame you. There are tons of websites that say you are wrong, some with credentialed engineers. Neutral ones, not left leaning or right leaning. But like I said above, let's meet here every 3-5 yrs, until 2035, and talk about the progress or EV technology. But Remember one thing, and take it to heart: My opinion and yours, the opinion of old farts like us, no longer matter. It's no longer your world. Millenials and Gen Z'ers (70% of them) are taking the lead and welcoming the DATA from the rest of the world.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:55 PM   #108
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Not sure this conversation is constructive or has a place on this forum. Side note: degrees do not equate to intelligence, I have 3, my Dad has zero and he is still substantially smarter. Also, the so called experts and highly educated for their day were the ones that said the earth was flat so, again, current scientific knowledge is not always right.
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Old 05-19-2022, 10:48 AM   #109
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The battery toad... Instead of towing a toad, tow a giant teardrop-sized trailer of batteries which should have 500 to 1k miles of charge. It would be nice to be detachable so if it catches fire you don't lose the rig.
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Old 05-19-2022, 02:16 PM   #110
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I don't blame you either. You're listening and reading all the American propaganda on this subject, derived from partisan leaning outlets.
You are right that Mercedes doesn't need the money. So what's your point? why even bring that up? America is the one that's all about the money, it's part of out DNA. Mercedes is still doing it money or no money.
Oh wait, Aaaargh it's a Big Conspiracy, right? lol
Yeah, yeah, we have this data and that data. But the Irrefutable data that we DO have is that our Emissions are WAAAY to high and need Lessening. The Irrefutable data that we do have is that 70% of Millennials and Gen Z'ers care about carbon Emissions and WANT change. What Is Irrefutable is that We have more wild fires now, More flooding now, more Hurricanes and tornadoes. We used to have Hurricane season...Now it's all yr long. So yeah you can go to every Seminar and collect ALL the data you want, but that's not going to change what's happening. So unless you and your data can come up with a Much better explanation than an "Ice Age" Which every scientist Knows happens every 20K year, EV technology is/will/ should be pursued.
As for drive trains. Oh man, it's obvious you are not an Electro Mechanical engineer because in your statement you seem to use Drive Train and Power train as if they were the same. Sorry dude you are way off. But I don't blame you. There are tons of websites that say you are wrong, some with credentialed engineers. Neutral ones, not left leaning or right leaning. But like I said above, let's meet here every 3-5 yrs, until 2035, and talk about the progress or EV technology. But Remember one thing, and take it to heart: My opinion and yours, the opinion of old farts like us, no longer matter. It's no longer your world. Millenials and Gen Z'ers (70% of them) are taking the lead and welcoming the DATA from the rest of the world.

Very interesting FACTS.

Lets start with The USA only contributes to 10% of the worlds air pollution.

Currently there are 256 coal fired power plants in the usa, burning clean low sulphur anthracite coal.

Europe has aproximately 500 coal fired plants, many of which burn soft high sulphur coal.

India and china each run over 1000 coal fired power plants, most of which burn low grade soft high sulphur soft coal, without the scrubbers and polution control devices required in the USA.

Now as far as EV vs ICE

Most ICE autos in the usa today run at aproximately 30 to 35% thermal efficiency.

(check it out) Most electric power plants run at about 35 to 40% Thermal efficiency. Deduct 15% transmission losses so the net thermal delivered to your house or EV charging station is 20 to 25%

Now add the fact that all of the electricity delivered to charge the battery in you electric car cannot be recovered, because some of the input energy is lost to heat.

It all doesn't add up. I dont have the answers but I have a lot of questions.

Why are we flogging the US public with IMHO unreasonable and expensive restrictions when the rest of the world ignores global warming.. Its like we're spitting in the ocean and expecting to see a change.
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Old 05-19-2022, 02:41 PM   #111
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I know.
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Old 05-19-2022, 03:02 PM   #112
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Most ICE autos in the usa today run at aproximately 30 to 35% thermal efficiency.

(check it out) Most electric power plants run at about 35 to 40% Thermal efficiency. Deduct 15% transmission losses so the net thermal delivered to your house or EV charging station is 20 to 25%

Now add the fact that all of the electricity delivered to charge the battery in you electric car cannot be recovered, because some of the input energy is lost to heat.
I've been saying the same thing for a long time. EVs are less energy efficient than ICEVs, but BEVs are being promoted as being much more efficient. It's disinformation, and it's being done by our own EPA. Next time you see one of those MPGe stickers, take 35% of that number and that's your true comparison.

We now have hybrids and diesels that can operate at over 40% thermal efficiency. BEVs cant compete with that and this is why I believe that the EV revolution is nothing more than a fad that will go away in a few years.
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