Fully electric RV's are coming

[tmandoug1]

Let me know when we can bust an atom and stick it in a car/rv safely.....thats when we will be good to go. Electric RVs won't be worth the investment unless you redefine the word RV. Next we should work on reducing the size of houses and land owned....who needs an 8000sqft home on 20 acres of manicured lawn? Let nature retake the land we bought to stare at. We should force these issues on every American until we drop our CO2 levels to acceptable levels. Even if we don't have the technology or infrastructure to deal with it yet. Let's see how us humans adapt!

[tetranz]

Originally Posted by move on

Suppose you come up with an onboard engine that is cleaner and burns less fuel per mile than the generator at the power plant?

Then you'd have an isolated, probably temporary situation where it wouldn't be better.

[move on]

Originally Posted by tetranz

Then you'd have an isolated, probably temporary situation where it wouldn't be better.

But a modern diesel engine is already better, especially when you consider the considerable the electrical losses in bringing power from the power plant to the wheels.

[EyezOpen]

It is good to see a open conversation on this topic, along with solid moderation. So many topics get canceled simply due to lack of tolerance by the few not the mods by the way. Kudo's to all and that would be to moderators most importantly..

[rarebear.nm]

Originally Posted by move on

But a modern diesel engine is already better, especially when you consider the considerable the electrical losses in bringing power from the power plant to the wheels.

Please put real numbers to your claims.



Exactly what are the considerable losses of getting power to the wheels. Also need to include the efficiency of converting gas/diesel to tire rotation and same for the efficiency of electric motors.


From what I read EVs continue to be less expensive per mile than any gas/diesel vehicle. Both costs are fully loaded by the time we buy it.

[Flyer15015]

Four station EV charger on U.S. 285 west of Denver with 4 cars charging.
DIESEL generator running quietly in the back.
DUH ???????

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by Flyer15015

O.K. so I think I understand.
We all buy electric cars and motorhomes.
Somebody drops an E.M. bomb. (look it up)
We're stuck at home.
Now we have to watch T.V. by candlelight.
Sounds like a plan to me..............

And what if the Plague comes back? Or the sky starts falling?

Here's something else to consider - if an EM device is used, you won't be watching TV, listening to radio, or using your cell phone. Perhaps we should consider homing pigeons and buying an abacus...

[tetranz]

Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy

Here's something else to consider - if an EM device is used, you won't be watching TV, listening to radio, or using your cell phone. Perhaps we should consider homing pigeons and buying an abacus...

Internet by homing pigeons has been successfully implemented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers

[radar]

Originally Posted by Flyer15015

Four station EV charger on U.S. 285 west of Denver with 4 cars charging.
DIESEL generator running quietly in the back.
DUH ???????

Whereabouts on 285. A 4 charger station doesn’t show on the app. Are you sure there was four? Any close reference points?

[move on]

Originally Posted by rarebear.nm

Exactly what are the considerable losses of getting power to the wheels.

thermal heat losses in gas turbine/steam turbine
heat loses in the generator windings at the power plant
heat losses in the step-up transformer
resistance heat losses in the high voltage lines
corona effect in the high voltage lines
step down transformer at the substation
resistance losses in the distribution lines
transformer losses in the distribution network

When all is done, the average electric grid has a thermal efficiency of only 35% when measured at the charge plug.

Then there is at least another 30% heat loss in charging/discharging of the EV battery.
More loss in the motor windings.
And don't forget you have gearing losses just like in an ICEV.
Also, additional rolling resistance because of the extra weight.

Add it all up and you are wasting much more energy that a good running diesel.

[dizcom]

Originally Posted by move on

thermal heat losses in gas turbine/steam turbine
heat loses in the generator windings at the power plant
heat losses in the step-up transformer
resistance heat losses in the high voltage lines
corona effect in the high voltage lines
step down transformer at the substation
resistance losses in the distribution lines
transformer losses in the distribution network

When all is done, the average electric grid has a thermal efficiency of only 35% when measured at the charge plug.

Then there is at least another 30% heat loss in charging/discharging of the EV battery.
More loss in the motor windings.
And don't forget you have gearing losses just like in an ICEV.
Also, additional rolling resistance because of the extra weight.

Add it all up and you are wasting much more energy that a good running diesel.

Your figures are off by quite a bit. I think if EV’s were that inefficient, they would cost more to run and they don’t. Filling ours costs about the same as 2 gallons of gas right now. That’s using a public charger. At home, it’s considerably less expensive. Our good running diesel costs a ton more. There’s no comparison. Also, what EV has gears? Ours does not. Nor did our last two. I think it’s fun to take a poke at something we don’t want to come along and change our world. But it is coming. All the inefficiency in the world won’t save ICE cars. Or motorhomes. It’s all loss at the pump, you see. The pumps use electricity to do the pumping and 175% of the electricity is wasted.

[dbircky]

Less expensive per mile…
Is this based on just fuel costs or total cost of ownership?
For example:
A Tesla 3 (compact car) now starts at $47,000.
A Honda Civic (compact car) now starts at $22,500.

That’s a $24,500 price difference. At $5 per gallon for gas that’s 4,900 gallons of gas. At 40 mpg, you’d could drive the Honda 196,000 miles on that $24,500 price delta. In other words, you could drive the Honda nearly 200,000 miles (16+ years of typical annual mileage) and be even with the cost of the Tesla before it moves one inch or sucks in one volt.

If anyone thinks you’ll save money on a BEV RV over a similar sized and equipped ICE RV, watch the price premium they will be. Winnebago still won’t say what their 125 mile range BEV class b will cost. $300,000 or even higher?

[move on]

Originally Posted by dizcom

Your figures are off by quite a bit. I think if EV’s were that inefficient, they would cost more to run and they don’t. Filling ours costs about the same as 2 gallons of gas right now. That’s using a public charger. At home, it’s considerably less expensive. Our good running diesel costs a ton more. There’s no comparison. Also, what EV has gears? Ours does not. Nor did our last two. I think it’s fun to take a poke at something we don’t want to come along and change our world. But it is coming. All the inefficiency in the world won’t save ICE cars. Or motorhomes. It’s all loss at the pump, you see. The pumps use electricity to do the pumping and 175% of the electricity is wasted.

The numbers are not off. The 35% thermal efficiency of the electric grid comes straight from data collected by eia.gov.

What is off is the information being disseminated by the EPA. When they tell you a BEV gets 100 MPGe equivalent miles per gallon they are measuring that from the charge plug and ignoring the 65% thermal losses in getting the electricity to the plug. So, its not 100 MPG, it's only 35 MPG. In other words, the EPA is lying to you.

[Oregon Rob]

Originally Posted by PJStough

What emissions do EVs put out?

So for ICE vehicles should we add to the emissions the vehicles put out all the emissions that are produced in the exploration, drilling, pumping, transportation and delivery of gasoline and diesel fuel?

I forgot to add refining to the list of things that produces emissions to the making of gasoline and diesel fuel.

Exactly!! Problem here is that people make decisions to condemn EV’s with a sever lack of education about them. I too though BS, but I am smart, I listen and I make decisions off of facts that I researched. Electricity is cheaper to produce than fossil fuels, we are replacing ICE which cost
More to produce and produce more emissions during production than electric drive systems. Electric motors are more efficient per mile than ICE’s and produce maximum torque at 1 RPM, etc. Seven years ago it would been questionable whether EV’s could compete with ICE’s, today I wouldn’t question it. We are preparing to Convert a 42’ MCI coach to Hybrid drive at my shop.