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Old 09-30-2022, 06:56 AM   #29
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Re the grid. Wayne township, Schuylkill County, PA was not electrified until the advent of WWII. Otherwise, Edison, and Tesla, et al would have brought you an EV much earlier. At that time there was maybe 120 million souls. Far fewer at the Millenium.
Electricity was never transported in 55 gallon drums in support of troops, land and sea transports, tanks, subs or Jeeps, or Mustangs.
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Old 09-30-2022, 08:12 AM   #30
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Re the grid. Wayne township, Schuylkill County, PA was not electrified until the advent of WWII. Otherwise, Edison, and Tesla, et al would have brought you an EV much earlier.
I imagine you are unaware of this, but EVs were the top vehicles on the road well over 120years ago. Gas and diesel followed.
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Old 09-30-2022, 08:40 AM   #31
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So some would have us go back to the stone age of personal transportation, and have the bureaucracy regulate it.
Henry Ford had a better idea. And the masses were fed and multiplied solely by the power of ICE engines.
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Old 09-30-2022, 08:51 AM   #32
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I don't see what your problem is. You don't like EVs, fine, don't buy one. You don't want anything to do with EVs, then, visit another forum, Why aggravate yourself with technology? Heck, maybe go out and find a hand cranked model T or something since you seem to admire them.

No one is forcing anything on anyone.
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Old 09-30-2022, 09:46 AM   #33
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Probably no different than any of the gas pumps at your local filling stations. Do THEY work underwater? Do they even work without electricity?



Sometimes I can't believe the comments here. It's like if some are stuck in the stone age.
When the price of gasoline and diesel drop because of the increase of electric vehicles on the road reducing demand at the pump, you'll hear these same detractors cheer on EVs

We have an acquaintance who traveled from NYC to Milwaulee WI in her Tesla who drove straight through stopping only to charge up a few times. Most she had to wait was 30 minutes for a charger.

Not in the market now but our next vehicle will be a EV.
Had an early light Hybrid Saturn and the super efficient hybrids and EVs are the future. The car manufacturers know it.
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Old 09-30-2022, 09:55 AM   #34
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Old 09-30-2022, 02:45 PM   #35
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So I'm reading recently that to get enough rare earth minerals to make a single EV Battery, you must dig up and process roughly 500,000 lbs of dirt.

Assuming an RV (coach the size of a school bus) will require a battery 4 times that size, then we're talking about 2,000,000 lbs of dirt just to power 1 RV sized EV.

Extrapolate that by the number of EV's (RV or otherwise) on the horizon . . . That's a lot of strip mining!

I'm an EV owner. . . and this does concern me!
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Old 09-30-2022, 03:10 PM   #36
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So I'm reading recently that to get enough rare earth minerals to make a single EV Battery, you must dig up and process roughly 500,000 lbs of dirt.

Assuming an RV (coach the size of a school bus) will require a battery 4 times that size, then we're talking about 2,000,000 lbs of dirt just to power 1 RV sized EV.

Extrapolate that by the number of EV's (RV or otherwise) on the horizon . . . That's a lot of strip mining!

I'm an EV owner. . . and this does concern me!
And where are people getting this "information" from? Is this from some putz on Twitter?
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Old 09-30-2022, 03:43 PM   #37
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Highway EV charging network coming soon

I found this interesting:

The U.S. produces 15% of the world’s GHGs, transportation accounts for 27% of those emissions, and 57% of transportation emissions come from passenger cars and light duty trucks. That means if every car was an EV with batteries charged from a non-carbon emitting source, GHGs would be reduced by 2.3%. Only 39% of U.S electricity, however, comes from non-carbon emitting sources. Therefore, realistically, if every car in the U.S. was an EV, carbon in the world’s atmosphere would be reduced by less than 1%.

I do believe EVs have their place and would consider one for hopping around town and such, but I don’t think pushing them as a vehicle to reverse climate change is productive.
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Old 09-30-2022, 03:55 PM   #38
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I found this interesting:

The U.S. produces 15% of the world’s GHGs, transportation accounts for 27% of those emissions, and 57% of transportation emissions come from passenger cars and light duty trucks. That means if every car was an EV with batteries charged from a non-carbon emitting source, GHGs would be reduced by 2.3%. Only 39% of U.S electricity, however, comes from non-carbon emitting sources. Therefore, realistically, if every car in the U.S. was an EV, carbon in the world’s atmosphere would be reduced by less than 1%.

I do believe EVs have their place and would consider one for hopping around town and such, but I don’t think pushing them as a vehicle to reverse climate change is productive.
Where do these numbers come from? Are some of these statistics extrapolated by yourself? I can tell you that a lot of data is missing or wrong later on.
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Old 09-30-2022, 03:56 PM   #39
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I imagine you are unaware of this, but EVs were the top vehicles on the road well over 120years ago. Gas and diesel followed.
This is true but due to lack of battery capacity, lack of electrical infrastructure, length of time to recharge, inability to haul or tow stuff, the electrical cars died quickly.

deja vue?
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Old 09-30-2022, 04:13 PM   #40
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So are they going to have chargers every 50 down I95, US1, hwy 17?

Since not all EV’s will start out at the same charge level, every 50 miles seems reasonable just as with ICE based cars they get off the interstate at different exits to feed the beast. No
Matter how many stations they build at the fuel stops, the arrival rate will most certainly exceed the departure rate. Can we say cluster ****. (self pre-edit) This happens quite often now with ICE fuel stations. Having to wait 5-10 minutes (more if the owner decides to go buy snacks, and doesn’t move the car) for a pump is inconvenient. Having to wait an hour will be a problem.

The only good thing about taking an hour to fuel an EV is you will have plenty of time to go pee, get snacks, catch up on email and txt’s. Heck if they are only level 2 chargers, you can even take a nap.
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Old 09-30-2022, 06:04 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by vtwinwilly View Post
So I'm reading recently that to get enough rare earth minerals to make a single EV Battery, you must dig up and process roughly 500,000 lbs of dirt.

Assuming an RV (coach the size of a school bus) will require a battery 4 times that size, then we're talking about 2,000,000 lbs of dirt just to power 1 RV sized EV.

Extrapolate that by the number of EV's (RV or otherwise) on the horizon . . . That's a lot of strip mining!

I'm an EV owner. . . and this does concern me!
500 000lbs seems like a lot, but the way the mining is explained here is all wrong. It's not like the miners go "oh, time to dig for Mr Smith's new EV battery, let's move a half million pounds of dirt". A lot of overburden is included in the calculations, just as in gold mining and other mining. That 500 000lbs is less than a full load on the huge 400 ton mining trucks. They will process it and extract several different minerals and possibly other goods unrelated, such as recuperating and selling the rocks and gravel for roadwork,etc. Sometimes the earth is screened and sold, depends on where the mining is. I'd sure be curious how one came up with the numbers.
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I found this interesting:

The U.S. produces 15% of the world’s GHGs, transportation accounts for 27% of those emissions, and 57% of transportation emissions come from passenger cars and light duty trucks. That means if every car was an EV with batteries charged from a non-carbon emitting source, GHGs would be reduced by 2.3%. Only 39% of U.S electricity, however, comes from non-carbon emitting sources. Therefore, realistically, if every car in the U.S. was an EV, carbon in the world’s atmosphere would be reduced by less than 1%.

I do believe EVs have their place and would consider one for hopping around town and such, but I don’t think pushing them as a vehicle to reverse climate change is productive.
It has been proven numerous times that even electricity derived from dirty coal power plants is still cleaner than anything a gas or diesel engine can produce. It's always easier to clean emissions at a fixed location (power plant) vs at the user end, way less variables. It's easier to install catalysts, control combustion temps,etc. There's a huge difference, not a few percent. One thing most people neglect is that any ICE engine spends much of its time idling and wasting a solid 20% or more in fuel, increasing overall emissions. An EV produces zero emissions when driving, idling, nothing. All the pollution comes from the power plant, and if they want to modernize, renewables, hydro power or others can be built for an even cleaner overall planet.
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This is true but due to lack of battery capacity, lack of electrical infrastructure, length of time to recharge, inability to haul or tow stuff, the electrical cars died quickly.

deja vue?
AFAIK, the availability of gas/diesel vs electricity early on but especially the overall cost of a cheap basic engine made the electrics no longer economically viable. Today we already have a grid, we aren't starting from scratch. EVs have many advantages over ICE, and the major disadvantages, such as range and cost are getting better practically every year now. The advances the past 5 years are phenomenal. I can see the larger vehicles like RVs and tow vehicles converting before 2035.
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So are they going to have chargers every 50 down I95, US1, hwy 17?

Since not all EV’s will start out at the same charge level, every 50 miles seems reasonable just as with ICE based cars they get off the interstate at different exits to feed the beast. No
Matter how many stations they build at the fuel stops, the arrival rate will most certainly exceed the departure rate. Can we say cluster ****. (self pre-edit) This happens quite often now with ICE fuel stations. Having to wait 5-10 minutes (more if the owner decides to go buy snacks, and doesn’t move the car) for a pump is inconvenient. Having to wait an hour will be a problem.

The only good thing about taking an hour to fuel an EV is you will have plenty of time to go pee, get snacks, catch up on email and txt’s. Heck if they are only level 2 chargers, you can even take a nap.
Many modern EVs will recharge from 20 to 80% in well under an hour, some do it in 30 minutes or less. I imagine it'll be a different story for mega sized batteries on the larger vehicles like the Kenworth T-680 semi, but they can plan around that.
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Old 09-30-2022, 06:20 PM   #42
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Where do these numbers come from? Are some of these statistics extrapolated by yourself? I can tell you that a lot of data is missing or wrong later on.


The EPA,

source: Boden, T.A., Marland, G., and Andres, R.J. (2017). National CO2 Emissions from Fossil-Fuel Burning, Cement Manufacture, and Gas Flaring: 1751-2014, Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, U.S. Department of Energy, doi 10.3334/CDIAC/00001_V2017.

The EIA: In 2021, about 4,116 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or about 4.12 trillion kWh) of electricity were generated at utility-scale electricity generation facilities in the United States. About 61% of this electricity generation was from fossil fuels—coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases.]

And others. I try to do my own research and comparisons. Of all the charts and reports, the percentages where in line for the most part within a 1% or so difference. The challenge is that some reports are a few years old and some are newer. Also, i weed through some stuff like “GHG emissions have dropped 9% over the past x amount of months or years, but they dont tell you that is was due to Covid and the shut downs.

Dont bother wasting time digging up contradicting stuff. Seems like that you are poised to do so. ie: lay out your sources and I will tell you that they are wrong. No point IMO.
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