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Old 10-06-2022, 11:18 PM   #85
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The whole EV push is short sighted. In less than 10 years we're going to be dealing with all the worn out batteries that contain non-recyclable toxic chemicals that need disposed of. There is a better option. It's called fuel-cell and that technology is leading the way in many European and Eastern countries. The only emission from them is water and, while the rang is the same as electric, the refueling time is 5 minutes vs 20 minutes to get to 80% charge, provided you can find a "supercharger". All this makes me believe that there must be powerful politicians who stand to make huge amounts of money off the EV push.
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Old 10-07-2022, 12:03 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcg View Post
Wait, what?

Is it just this agenda or all agendas?
Wait an minute , who wants to know ? It's not the Federal Governments job so all agendas but let's start with this one then work our way up. Ok there I said it , heck you already know where I live. LOL
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Old 10-07-2022, 01:02 AM   #87
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Why Can't We Mine Here

If only we could get all our own materials ( mining ) here in the USA for the making of every EV battery . If we did , there would be none because the Government would shut it down. Would not the carbon footprint be so large and what's with that big hole in the earth plus you what'll kill what ?
Made in the USA, when will that happen. So go ahead push EV but remember it's only because it's not in your backyard

If a new all electric fire truck ( with a diesel backup generator )cost about 1.5 mil , how much for a Class A ?
Please by all means go EV but please don't stop working I still need my SSI

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Old 10-07-2022, 01:47 AM   #88
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Substitute “automobile” for “EV” in negative responses in this thread and there you have it: step back in time 120 years. Everything is still evolving and the problems will be solved. Who really thinks you can avoid the future by clinging to the past?
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Old 10-07-2022, 03:02 AM   #89
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Even when done, it will take over a week to travel coast to coast! Bring something to read!
Our planned RV trip from SE Arizona to NJ will take between 8-10 days following the 300 mile “rule” yet non of us think anything of it.
The big thing in RV upgrades lately seem to larger and larger bank of lithium batteries yet I don’t hear others saying the sky is falling.
If you are afraid of EVs, or just don’t like them that’s fine, but please let’s stop purposely spreading misinformation in an effort to make it look like bad technology.
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Old 10-07-2022, 03:13 AM   #90
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Don't be misled by Big Oil lie.

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There are 2 facts that will delay any significant additions to the EV charging infrastructure in the US.

1. Our grid simply won't handle the load. In some cases we are close to failure now.

2. We simply don't generate enough electricity for any additional loads. This problem is getting worse rather than better. At least in the midwest where we are from. I work closely with several people at our local utility company. We were VERY close to rolling blackouts this summer and it is getting worse. Every time they close down a power plant they lose more capacity. Replacing it with wind and solar just isn't working. That is not a political statement, just the truth. Until we can either fire back up some of the plants we have or come up with a better alternative there will be an issue with the total amount of available power.

Until those 2 issues are fixed there won't be any significant increase in available charging stations. That alone would prevent me from going electric with the possible exception of a local commuter.
The electric power grid is designed for peak use. Typically 6-9 am and 5-9 pm. Most EVs charge at night when lots of excess electric power is being thrown away. So EVs do not affect the grid much at peak hours. Long term they will even help the grid by selling back stored power during peak times. This tech is called vehicle-to-grid, V2G. Tesla Virtual Power Plant, VPP, started doing something similar this summer with their Powerwalls. My son got $2 per kWh selling back power at peak times. The Ford Lighting can already pump 110/220 VAC and run an average home in the US for 3 days. So no, EVs will not affect the grid as Big Oil has misled many with this fear. My Model 3 adds just $25-$35 per month to my electric bill based on a 50 mile round trip commute 5 days a week plus typical running around town. It actually uses much less power than my 4 ton AC during summer months.
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Old 10-07-2022, 03:38 AM   #91
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Hydrogen is just a fossil fuel industry way to get us to lose focus.

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The whole EV push is short sighted. In less than 10 years we're going to be dealing with all the worn out batteries that contain non-recyclable toxic chemicals that need disposed of. There is a better option. It's called fuel-cell and that technology is leading the way in many European and Eastern countries. The only emission from them is water and, while the rang is the same as electric, the refueling time is 5 minutes vs 20 minutes to get to 80% charge, provided you can find a "supercharger". All this makes me believe that there must be powerful politicians who stand to make huge amounts of money off the EV push.
Hydrogen is just too expensive because of the inefficiencies to convert, compress and transport. With today's tech the lowest cost H2 comes from fossil fuel and costs $12 for an equivalent gallon of gas. H2 fuel cells is 60-70 yr old tech that NASA has been using with their spacecrafts. The H2 molecule is so small that there are always leaks and NASA has not been able to solve it since its beginning. Many canceled space shots have been due to these leaks. Even the recent Artemis canceled shot 2 weeks ago was due to leaking H2 tanks. EV refueling at public chargers is only necessary on long trips. 95% of the time I stay local going to work. Takes 2 sec. to plug and 2 sec. to unplug every day 5 days a week. So I spend 20 sec. a week vs 10-15 min. per week when I use to use my gas car. In a year, I spend 16 min. refueling my EV vs 8-12 hours with my old gas car.
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Old 10-07-2022, 05:41 AM   #92
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I'll keep my old Dodge diesel for camping trips. However I'm not against owning an electric vehicle for everyday driving sometime in the future. Right now the prices are to high for us. We don't feel there is a need to spend $50k+ on a new vehicle. We typically buy used five year old cars.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:15 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Rev. Roy View Post
The whole EV push is short sighted. In less than 10 years we're going to be dealing with all the worn out batteries that contain non-recyclable toxic chemicals that need disposed of. There is a better option. It's called fuel-cell and that technology is leading the way in many European and Eastern countries. The only emission from them is water and, while the rang is the same as electric, the refueling time is 5 minutes vs 20 minutes to get to 80% charge, provided you can find a "supercharger". All this makes me believe that there must be powerful politicians who stand to make huge amounts of money off the EV push.
Batteries are actually 95% recyclable and the output Lithium is actually purer than the mined Lithium. You might want to check out the business case for Redwood Materials and educate yourself before spreading misinformation. Also to date no Battery packs have been landfilled as they are actually too valuable and have several use cases when they reach 70% of originally rated capacity including stationary energy storage systems. Also your 10 year estimate is also highly off. The batteries themselves are in full warranty for 8 years and have been shown to have way over 80% on average after 200,000 miles of usage.

https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/new...-in-california
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:21 AM   #94
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The electric power grid is designed for peak use. Typically 6-9 am and 5-9 pm. Most EVs charge at night when lots of excess electric power is being thrown away. So EVs do not affect the grid much at peak hours. Long term they will even help the grid by selling back stored power during peak times. This tech is called vehicle-to-grid, V2G. Tesla Virtual Power Plant, VPP, started doing something similar this summer with their Powerwalls. My son got $2 per kWh selling back power at peak times. The Ford Lighting can already pump 110/220 VAC and run an average home in the US for 3 days. So no, EVs will not affect the grid as Big Oil has misled many with this fear. My Model 3 adds just $25-$35 per month to my electric bill based on a 50 mile round trip commute 5 days a week plus typical running around town. It actually uses much less power than my 4 ton AC during summer months.
If you are a commuter and only charging at home then yes, I agree with you. However this thread is specifically talking about charging stations to be built along the highways. These will likely be primarily used during the day just like gas stations are. Therefore, this will be during peak times. Your argument does not apply to the subject in this thread.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:22 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by SawdustRadio View Post
The electric power grid is designed for peak use. Typically 6-9 am and 5-9 pm. Most EVs charge at night when lots of excess electric power is being thrown away. So EVs do not affect the grid much at peak hours. Long term they will even help the grid by selling back stored power during peak times. This tech is called vehicle-to-grid, V2G. Tesla Virtual Power Plant, VPP, started doing something similar this summer with their Powerwalls. My son got $2 per kWh selling back power at peak times. The Ford Lighting can already pump 110/220 VAC and run an average home in the US for 3 days. So no, EVs will not affect the grid as Big Oil has misled many with this fear. My Model 3 adds just $25-$35 per month to my electric bill based on a 50 mile round trip commute 5 days a week plus typical running around town. It actually uses much less power than my 4 ton AC during summer months.
Very good post but I would like to point out one other issue that the opponents of EV’s are not recognizing. Solar and Wind are not only the cheapest and cleanest form of grid energy, but they are also the fastest growing segment. Since neither produce at night (wind some of the time) energy storage systems will be necessary to retire fossil fuel plants period. Once these systems are installed, and yes they are incredibly profitable for the Utility companies by eliminating the need for peak power plants burning NG, they load balancing the system at night will make perfect sense. 95% of EV charging occurs at night. The other bit of misinformation being spread is that the grid can not handle this load. The circuit for an EV at home pulls less than your A/C unit and since the average number of miles driven per day in the US is approximately 40 miles, you are only talking about running that circuit during off peak hours for 1.25 hours / night. System is perfectly capable today for providing that load, not to mention the transition to electric vehicles will take 30 years.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:32 AM   #96
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Our planned RV trip from SE Arizona to NJ will take between 8-10 days following the 300 mile “rule” yet non of us think anything of it.
The big thing in RV upgrades lately seem to larger and larger bank of lithium batteries yet I don’t hear others saying the sky is falling.
If you are afraid of EVs, or just don’t like them that’s fine, but please let’s stop purposely spreading misinformation in an effort to make it look like bad technology.
The Cybertruck with 500+ miles of EPA range, only needs 180 miles of towing range from 10% to 80% of the battery capacity. Then you can travel 360 miles / day for approximately $90 with only one charging stop for just over 30 minutes. That is 1/3 the cost of a diesel rig @$5/gallon. Perfect national park rig. Also don’t forget that travel while at a destination will be 100% free. And before everyone else starts complaining about the camp ground energy usage, most campgrounds already charge more for 50 amp circuits and no one charges Class A motor homes more for use of their third A/C unit. Extended stays already have meter usage charges, which would then also apply.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:38 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by R-racer View Post
If you are a commuter and only charging at home then yes, I agree with you. However this thread is specifically talking about charging stations to be built along the highways. These will likely be primarily used during the day just like gas stations are. Therefore, this will be during peak times. Your argument does not apply to the subject in this thread.
Agreed, but you never recognized that the long distance charging infrastructure is only for 5% of the total usage of EV’s, therefore, most of your arguments about the grid not being able to handle it are pure junk. Also Solar and Wind have excess capacity during the day, which also negates the grid can’t handle it misinformation being spread.
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Old 10-07-2022, 06:54 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Rev. Roy View Post
The whole EV push is short sighted. In less than 10 years we're going to be dealing with all the worn out batteries that contain non-recyclable toxic chemicals that need disposed of. There is a better option. It's called fuel-cell and that technology is leading the way in many European and Eastern countries. The only emission from them is water and, while the rang is the same as electric, the refueling time is 5 minutes vs 20 minutes to get to 80% charge, provided you can find a "supercharger". All this makes me believe that there must be powerful politicians who stand to make huge amounts of money off the EV push.
Really? In which countries are fuel cell vehicles leading the pack? You do know that this is not exactly new technology. Ballard had created this well over 2 decades ago, but it STILL hasn't caught on.

Batteries from the EVs will be recycled, they do this locally here and even pay for them.
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