Interesting article on a 70 passenger electric tour bus made in Colorado

[radar]

Looks huge. And 70 passengers. . Anybody up for a conversion project? .

https://electrek.co/2021/11/04/light...0-kwh-battery/

[amosnandy]

I’ll build one if someone will give me a 200amp extension cord 200 miles long so I can keep going.

[radar]

Originally Posted by amosnandy

I’ll build one if someone will give me a 200amp extension cord 200 miles long so I can keep going.

LOL

[Ray,IN]

How about an electric semi-tractor trailer: https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...mtruck-2021-11

[radar]

Yah. I read something on that last week. I think they’ll be lots of competitors in this market in the next 5 to 7 years. Especially in that short to medium hall market which they would be really good at.

[move on]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

How about an electric semi-tractor trailer: https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...mtruck-2021-11

Pretty cool. Very smart to offer a hybrid version. The all electric version will never sell.

[brucemcdou]

Originally Posted by move on

Pretty cool. Very smart to offer a hybrid version. The all electric version will never sell.

I'm curious why you don't think an electric version of a semi won't sell? Many (most?) semi trucks don't drive long distances; the do predictable short- or medium distance routes and return to the same location every night, perfect for a corporate fleet with fixed charging stations.

For example, here in the San Francisco Bay area, we store our RV at a storage lot in Point Richmond (in the East Bay). There's a beer distribution warehouse right next to the storage lot. Every morning trucks leave that warehouse pulling trailers full of beer to grocery and liquor stores, bars and restaurants in the Bay area. They return at the end of the day and sit, unused, overnight. All of those trucks are currently powered by diesel, and all of them would be perfect candidates to be electric.

The same is true for the trucks used by grocery chains (Safeway, Kroger, etc.), Walmart, Amazon, etc. Most heavy trucks would do just as well if they were electric. And those electric trucks would be less expensive for those fleet operators: easier (virtually no) maintenance, with a lower cost to fuel.

[Ernie Ekberg]

You don’t have enough electricity in kalifornia to charge those vehicles

[move on]

Originally Posted by brucemcdou

I'm curious why you don't think an electric version of a semi won't sell? Many (most?) semi trucks don't drive long distances; the do predictable short- or medium distance routes and return to the same location every night, perfect for a corporate fleet with fixed charging stations.

For example, here in the San Francisco Bay area, we store our RV at a storage lot in Point Richmond (in the East Bay). There's a beer distribution warehouse right next to the storage lot. Every morning trucks leave that warehouse pulling trailers full of beer to grocery and liquor stores, bars and restaurants in the Bay area. They return at the end of the day and sit, unused, overnight. All of those trucks are currently powered by diesel, and all of them would be perfect candidates to be electric.

The same is true for the trucks used by grocery chains (Safeway, Kroger, etc.), Walmart, Amazon, etc. Most heavy trucks would do just as well if they were electric. And those electric trucks would be less expensive for those fleet operators: easier (virtually no) maintenance, with a lower cost to fuel.

The main reason that you won't see many electric semis is due to cost. The batteries required are so expensive that you will never be able to get your money back, even with free electricity. Also, they are so heavy that the trucks won't be able to carry as much cargo, requiring more trucks and more drivers to handle the same tonnage.

The lithium-ion battery is a great invention but nobody is looking at how we can supply enough of them to electrify transportation. They require scarce materials, notably nickel and cobalt, that will become even more expensive as we dig deeper and deeper to get them out of the earth. Unless some new, unforeseen battery technology comes along electric vehicles will never become more than just a novelty.

Then there is the issue of fuel consumption. It is a myth that EVs are more energy efficient than ICEs. EVs burn their fuel at the power plant and they burn more of it than a good running diesel engine. So, not only do we need better battery technology to think about electrifying trucks, we need a better supply of electricity.

[dizcom]

That converted electric bus has a side radiator so you know it's quality (laughing with you, Newmar guys).


We're looking forward to electric vehicles, including RVs. I'm sure someone is looking at it, but it feels like RVs will probably be the last to convert. Who knows? Maybe something else will come along, but I'm sure my diesel will be replaced eventually.


I hope it has air horns...

[bigb56]

I am curious if the estimated range includes the air conditioning load which must be pretty substantial with all that glass.

[brucemcdou]

Originally Posted by move on

The main reason that you won't see many electric semis is due to cost. The batteries required are so expensive that you will never be able to get your money back, even with free electricity. Also, they are so heavy that the trucks won't be able to carry as much cargo, requiring more trucks and more drivers to handle the same tonnage.

The lithium-ion battery is a great invention but nobody is looking at how we can supply enough of them to electrify transportation. They require scarce materials, notably nickel and cobalt, that will become even more expensive as we dig deeper and deeper to get them out of the earth. Unless some new, unforeseen battery technology comes along electric vehicles will never become more than just a novelty.

Then there is the issue of fuel consumption. It is a myth that EVs are more energy efficient than ICEs. EVs burn their fuel at the power plant and they burn more of it than a good running diesel engine. So, not only do we need better battery technology to think about electrifying trucks, we need a better supply of electricity.

Thanks MoveOn; helpful thoughts and context here and lots to consider. I am not an engineer (just a dumb lawyer) but I am an optimist for technology. Modern electric vehicles have been produced for 30 +/- years (putting aside golf carts and the electric cars of the early 20th century). Just in this short time the technology, the batteries, the efficiency have all continued to improve at a steady pace. The first cars used lead-acid batteries, then nickel, now lithium and there are labs working on even more efficient ones right now. Just like gasoline and diesel ICE's have continued to improve over the past 120+ years. I don't see any reason that progress on electric vehicles would suddenly stop.

Regarding the environmental impact of mining lithium and other minerals to create batteries, I don't disagree that of course there are impacts. However, since we are at the beginning of a new era we have an opportunity to consider the impacts you describe and take steps to minimize and mitigate them instead of letting the damage occur and then pay for clean up after the damage has been done. We have learned the hard way that pumping petroleum out of the ground and processing, transporting and storing it has damaged both the local environment as well as the global environment even for those who live far from any producing oil wells, refineries, pipelines, underground storage tanks etc. Hopefully we won't make the same mistakes with lithium, cobalt, and other minerals that may be used in the future.

Lastly, of course you're correct that batteries are normally charged from the grid and are thus no cleaner than the grid is. That's where the good news is - in the US and most OECD countries the production of utility scale electricity has steadily decarbonized with increasingly inexpensive solar and wind as well as thermal, hydro and nuclear. There are a variety of efforts (again, both in the US and around the world) to continue decarbonizing, thereby saving consumers and drivers money as the costs continue to drop below those of the legacy fossil-fuel options.