Kenworth BEV (electric) heavy duty trucks arriving locally

[maybe I care]

Originally Posted by kdauto

I suspect 90%+ of its operation time will be on the battery.

It's really no different than having large diesel or gas backup generators

And I suspect 90% won't be able to afford a Class A Electric Motor Home but what the hell I'm sure the Gov ( who's rich ) will give a big discount for those that can, right. Also the carbon footprint (one I suspect will be a very small one , right ) will be worth it to get one diesel class A off the road

And your second point, ERV, there won't be backup fuel generators (that's the point) unless it's electric , remember it's all about the smoke. That reminds me, where did I put my
KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE
(any future commission on the saying, I want it )

[dbircky]

BEV MH coming soon? Someone needs to call Ford or Chevy, they appear to be out of the loop:

https://jalopnik.com/fords-super-dut...ong-1849610263

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by dbircky

BEV MH coming soon? Someone needs to call Ford or Chevy, they appear to be out of the loop:

https://jalopnik.com/fords-super-dut...ong-1849610263

I've read articles on GM promising an EV HD truck before 2035. I don't really care what Ford does. Time will tell.

[LERD]

I'll be the first to say 2 things that I think are true. First, I believe the whole save the planet EV movement is based on politics, not science. Man has a lot of hubris to think you can alter the climate of our planet, short of a nuclear war. But secondly, while I like the idea of an electric motor for instant torque, I'm not sure a BEV is the way for everyone. But, since the whole carbon footprint fallacy is in full swing, I did read a very interesting article that should have serious considerations. This new technology would alter existing diesel engines, to be able to run on a 90% hydrogen 10% diesel solution. The ultimate effects according to this article is an 85% reduction in nitrous oxide emissions, reducing greenhouse gas. Interestingly enough, according to this article, this hydrogen would not have to be the super clean type that is required for hydrogen fuel cells. But this is a "dirtier " type of hydrogen than can actually be manufactured by, (wait for it...) wind and solar. Currently the study is planning on using it for stationary diesels like generators. But this is a far better and less costly option compared to making everything a BEV that has very limited range and options for recharging. Just my $.02

https://techxplore-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/techxplore.com/news/2022-10-retrofits-diesel-hydrogen.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKA GwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=1665249087 0902&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&a mpshare=https%3A%2F%2Ftechxplore.com%2Fnews%2F2022-10-retrofits-diesel-hydrogen.html

[Joe Ogiba]

[Hoss Hauler]

Originally Posted by Joe Ogiba

There's an old, rather crude joke, with a punchline that goes, "How do you measure that?" So, I ask, "how do you measure that?"

When I was youth I flew the S-2 series of sub-hunting aircraft. When we filed a flight plan we said our flight endurance was 7 hrs. and 30 mins. If we flew a max. endurance airspeed and did nothing but bore 30 nm wide circles in the sky that was about right. But we didn't accomplish much doing that.

So, how do we come up with 500 miles? How much does the truck weigh and how fast is it going? Fair questions, these.

We could refuel my trust S-2 with 758 gallons of 115/145 AVGAS in about 10 min. Then we were ready for 7.5 more hours of flight.

How long will it take to recharge this machine to 100%?

Our AVGAS was delivered by pipeline or tanker from a refinery.

Where will the electricity come from to recharge these trucks?

There is a curious mixture of "pie in the sky" combined with an almost religious belief in heavy duty, battery powered equipment. IMO the real-world history of such things is very thin an not very encouraging. The problem is one of Physics, not Computer Engineering.

Hoss

[move on]

Originally Posted by Hoss Hauler

There's an old, rather crude joke, with a punchline that goes, "How do you measure that?" So, I ask, "how do you measure that?"

When I was youth I flew the S-2 series of sub-hunting aircraft. When we filed a flight plan we said our flight endurance was 7 hrs. and 30 mins. If we flew a max. endurance airspeed and did nothing but bore 30 nm wide circles in the sky that was about right. But we didn't accomplish much doing that.

So, how do we come up with 500 miles? How much does the truck weigh and how fast is it going? Fair questions, these.

We could refuel my trust S-2 with 758 gallons of 115/145 AVGAS in about 10 min. Then we were ready for 7.5 more hours of flight.

How long will it take to recharge this machine to 100%?

Our AVGAS was delivered by pipeline or tanker from a refinery.

Where will the electricity come from to recharge these trucks?

There is a curious mixture of "pie in the sky" combined with an almost religious belief in heavy duty, battery powered equipment. IMO the real-world history of such things is very thin an not very encouraging. The problem is one of Physics, not Computer Engineering.

Hoss

The lifetime cost of this EV semi, including purchase price plus operating expenses, will be 2-3 times that of a traditional semi. Obviously Pepsico is buying them for another reason. This is an advertising stunt aimed at virtue signaling to the green, woke crowd.

[propchef]

Originally Posted by move on

The lifetime cost of this EV semi, including purchase price plus operating expenses, will be 2-3 times that of a traditional semi. Obviously Pepsico is buying them for another reason. This is an advertising stunt aimed at virtue signaling to the green, woke crowd.

...who quit drinking sugar-laden soft drinks like Coke and Pepsi years ago. Yerba Mate is now the drink of choice.

Please show the numbers where you derived the "2-3 times that of a traditional semi" especially in light of the fact there's no real-world long-term testing.

[move on]

Originally Posted by propchef

...who quit drinking sugar-laden soft drinks like Coke and Pepsi years ago. Yerba Mate is now the drink of choice.

Please show the numbers where you derived the "2-3 times that of a traditional semi" especially in light of the fact there's no real-world long-term testing.

Try mate de coca. Much better.

You're right. We're guessing at real world data, but I've seen pricing on a class 5 truck: 95k for the ICE and 250k for the BEV. Then there's the problem that an EV semi is 6 tons heavier and therefore can't carry as much cargo as a diesel semi, meaning that you have to buy more EV trucks and hire more drivers to transport the same amount of goods.

[kdauto]

There's very little use in replying to certain people. They are the "can't do" crowd. Nothing can ever change, we can't impact anything, be it good or bad, and the ways and methods of a century ago were the best. These types will never move forward.

If the very sharp people at the local trucking company bought 2 EV trucks, they did the math. They figure hundreds of thousands in savings over the truck's lifespan.

Of course for right now, different trucks for different jobs. That will likely evolve over the next decade or two. This will most likely merge to the RV world.

[SergioP]

https://www.electricmotorengineering...-iveco-nikola/

Select US customers will be getting trucks this year.

[move on]

Originally Posted by SergioP

https://www.electricmotorengineering...-iveco-nikola/

Select US customers will be getting trucks this year.

Fuel cell technology is interesting. It's good to know that we can have a means of mobile energy for the transportation industry once our supply of fossil fuels runs out and we have nuclear fusion to produce electricity for hydrogen hydrolysis. I'm not sure which century that will be, but until then we have plenty of clean natural gas to produce hydrogen. It's a definite improvement over the idea of using batteries to move cars and trucks, and it can also be used to power aircraft, trains, ships, etc.

[Lt Dan]

Thread Reminder

Some posts have started to drift off topic and into politics. Please stay on the original topic and away from politics if you want to keep the thread open.

Thanks to all posting on topic and within the rules.

[Hoss Hauler]

Originally Posted by kdauto

There's very little use in replying to certain people. They are the "can't do" crowd. Nothing can ever change, we can't impact anything, be it good or bad, and the ways and methods of a century ago were the best. These types will never move forward.

If the very sharp people at the local trucking company bought 2 EV trucks, they did the math. They figure hundreds of thousands in savings over the truck's lifespan.

Of course for right now, different trucks for different jobs. That will likely evolve over the next decade or two. This will most likely merge to the RV world.

Your first paragraph has some merit, but lacks the "show me" basis to back up the claims. I ask "show me." No one has yet done so. This is not political point, it's a notation of objective reality. I have conceded, and will continue do so, the utility of EVs for small scale road transport. The heavy duty stuff I do not concede based upon my own experiences in multiple circumstances. So, in this case, "I'm from MO; me, ya gotta show." This is not being a Luddite, it's being a critical (in the sense of I want to see the evidence) observer.

As to corporate policy, more than one has engaged in "virtue signaling" as part of their overall corporate image making. If these vehicles are not what they claim to be then what you have is "virtue signaling."

It may be that in the fullness of time the larger use of EV power will allow for Class 8 vehicles. Or not. This is something we don't KNOW as no one has yet done. "Belief" is not a synonym for "demonstrated capability."

As to EV migration to larger units, it will NOT happen unless, and until, you have small scale power generation vice taking power from a fixed source, putting it into some sort of battery, and then taking it back. That is a built-in inefficiency that can NEVER be erased. That's just Physics.

Hoss