Shell oil to add 500,000 charge points by 2025.

[radar]

Originally Posted by DutchmenSpor

I have many weary thoughts about this subject.

First, the question I've never been told an answer to. How much does it cost to charge an electric car? Second. How long does it take to charge an electric car?

I'll take a shot at the first two questions.

1. "How much does it cost to charge an electric car?"

It depends. The vast majority of charging is done at home. So using a nice round number of 10 cents per kwh (we are cheaper). If your car has an 80 KWH battery it would be 8 bucks if it was dead empty. Our lifetime average (over 5 years) is 6.4 kilometers per kwh. So technically 512 kilometers on 8 bucks. If you are in the US that is about 300 ish miles for 8 dollars. Also, no oil changes etc. EV's are cheap to run. However if you are charging at superchargers or non Tesla DC fast chargers multiply that by 3 or 4 times. Typical Supercharger cost per KWH is about 26 cents per kwh. Non Tesla DC fast chargers can be even more. But then again, currently over 90 percent of charging is done at home and some people never charge anywhere else. The only time one would ever use a supercharger is on a road trip.

2. "How long does it take to charge an electric car? "

Again. It depends on the car, model, make, year. A typical Supercharge stop for a new Tesla is about 20 minutes and I think I have heard that on the west coast I5 corridor that is now closer to 16 minutes at the V3 250 KW Superchargers. We have never been at a Supercharger for more than 20 minutes. Older Teslas take longer as the technology has changed a lot in the last few years.

Typical charge times for non Teslas are double that if not more both because the cars charge slower and most non Tesla DC fast chargers max out at 100 KW verses Teslas V2 150KW and V3 250 KW rates.

Heads up though. EV drivers are like ICE drivers. For example, my wife and I always travel on the top 2/3 of the "tank" or battery. So we are never starting from zero on the battery, and we never wait till the "tank" is full. The last 10 percent of a battery charges kinda slow. The length of our stop is determined by how long it takes to eat lunch (20 minutes) or a coffee refill and pee break 10 to 15 minutes. We don't stop to charge, we charge when we are stopped. That is easy on the west coast as charging opportunities are ubiquitous. Don't know about the rest of the continent.

Also, although we don't find hot weather affects things that much one should count on charging more in cold and going less distance. A nice safe number has been a 1/3 hit on range etc for where we live although in reality its probably less than that. We get down to minus 20 C here from time to time but minus 10 is probably more a cold winter night.

This is my wifes car in its natural habitat in winter. Brrr.

Hope that answers your questions....or at least the first two.

[radar]

Originally Posted by twinboat

All electric vehicles are subsudised to the tune of $7500 on the Federal level and some on the State level, up to $10,000, total taxpayer $$.

.

Not all. Tesla’s and GM EV’s don’t get the tax credit. For the last two years the only vehicles getting the 7500 tax incentive are

Nissan,
Mercedes
Volkswagen
Hyundai,
Toyota
Kia,
BMW

GM has asked the new administration that the 200,000 vehicle sold limit be removed so they and Tesla buyers can qualify for the 7500 tax exemption.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by radar

Not all. Tesla’s and GM EV’s don’t get the tax credit. For the last two years the only vehicles getting the 7500 tax incentive are

Nissan,
Mercedes
Volkswagen
Hyundai,
Toyota
Kia,
BMW

GM has asked the new administration that the 200,000 vehicle sold limit be removed so they and Tesla buyers can qualify for the 7500 tax exemption.

Yes, the incentive drops over the next few years for GM, maybe.

[BillJinOR]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Yes, the incentive drops over the next few years for GM, maybe.

GM tax credit was gone last year. It dropped over '19 and early '20. GM is offering their own"incentives" I almost bought a Bolt in July of last year, and ran the numbers.

[PS56]

Originally Posted by radar

I doubt it. Shell is a Dutch company and is getting heavily invested in renewables, especially in Europe and Britain. Many of these 500,000 stations will be installed in Europe. We are already seeing them here in Canada. Most countries are not having a problem making the gradual transition to more renewable energy sources. It'll happen.

This is one of their sites here in Canada. We also have a bunch of the green lots sites here which are also owned by them. Pretty reliable chain. We have one of their RFID cards. Pretty painless billing process. Swipe and charge.

That makes sense for Canada, not so much for other countries.

[PS56]

Originally Posted by DutchmenSpor

I have many weary thoughts about this subject.

First, the question I've never been told an answer to. How much does it cost to charge an electric car? Second. How long does it take to charge an electric car?

Now comments.

If taxes are not generated on gasoline sales, then states will start charging taxes on vehicles themselves, because the "state" HAS to get their revenue. And more than likely, that tax will not be re-invested back into road infrastructure repairs either.

Second, nothing is free. Everything has a trade-off that costs this planet. What process is used to create the electricity to charge the car to begin with. Oh... wind power and solar power. OH that is so free! No it is not! What about all the materials it took to make the solar panels. Where did those factories get their "power" from to run their machines. What is powering the bull dozers, the back hoes, the ditch diggers to run all those electric lines, trenches, and machines to install overhead power lines, and build towers to string wires on the electric power source. What about all the land that is taken to install a solar farm? How about all the fields and crops that get destroyed to install a wind farm?

Don't take this the wrong way. I am not against the use of electric power. But I am dead set against the idea that it doesn't COST anything! There is still a price that has to be paid. The end consumer, plugging in that rubber electric cord into their car, never gave it one second's thought, that that rubber coated cord was produced with oil.

Here is the math on electric vehicles:
What is the CO2 produced by the following for 13,000 miles

Electric
Gasoline
Diesel
Hybrid - gas with electric gen&batteries

Below is where the USA gets its electricity


https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
U.S. utility-scale electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 20191
Energy source Billion kWh Share of total
Total - all sources 4,127
Fossil fuels (total) 2,582 62.6%
Natural Gas 1,586 38.4%
Coal 965
23.4%
Petroleum (total) 18
0.4%
Petroleum liquids 12 0.3%
Petroleum coke 7
0.2%
Other gases 13 0.3%
Nuclear 809 19.6%
Renewables (total) 728 17.6%
Wind 295
7.1%
Hydropower 288 7.0%
Solar 72
1.7%
Photovoltaic 69 1.7%
Solar thermal 3
0.1%
Biomass (total) 58 1.4%
Wood 39 0.9%
Landfill gas 10 0.3%
Municipal solid waste (biogenic) 6
0.1%
Other biomass waste 2
0.1%
Geothermal 15 0.4%
Pumped storage hydropower3 -5 -0.1%
Other sources3 13 0.3%

[ArtJoyce]

Originally Posted by radar

I doubt it. Shell is a Dutch company and is getting heavily invested in renewables, especially in Europe and Britain. Many of these 500,000 stations will be installed in Europe. We are already seeing them here in Canada. Most countries are not having a problem making the gradual transition to more renewable energy sources. It'll happen.

This is one of their sites here in Canada. We also have a bunch of the green lots sites here which are also owned by them. Pretty reliable chain. We have one of their RFID cards. Pretty painless billing process. Swipe and charge.

Being a Dutch company they will put up windmills the Dutch are windmill experts. lol

[radar]

Originally Posted by PS56

That makes sense for Canada, not so much for other countries.

Yah I suppose. And coal is around 6 percent for 2021. And there are a bunch more dams coming on line in the next 5 years.

But Britain has gone from 40 percent coal to 5 percent coal in a couple decades. Many European countries are on a trek to much more renewable energy sources.

Personally I think natural gas is a pretty clean electricity source in the interim.

JMHO

[move on]

One problem with solar and wind farms seems to be that they don't put out too much electricity with one inch of ice on them. People in Texas are freezing to death today after the ice storm. They should have relied more on fossil fuel plants.

[George Schweikle]

Here's more about Royal Dutch Shell and their moving past "Peak oil production"
https://jalopnik.com/shell-says-its-...ion-1846262875

[Old Scout]

….Good for you folks in Canada--really!....but no new hydro dams have been built in the US in years....while some existing dams are being razed....those tar sand reserves in Alberta are looking pretty good right now--Ooops- no way to "safely" transport them--oh bother.

[radar]

Originally Posted by Old Scout

….Good for you folks in Canada--really!....but no new hydro dams have been built in the US in years....while some existing dams are being razed....those tar sand reserves in Alberta are looking pretty good right now--Ooops- no way to "safely" transport them--oh bother.

What does "no way to "safely" transport them--oh bother" mean. Most is transported by pipeline to the west coast and rail to other locations. Pipelines to the west coast are currently being doubled in size.

[Old Scout]

...its just what I read on the internet--it must be "true!" [smile]

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by move on

One problem with solar and wind farms seems to be that they don't put out too much electricity with one inch of ice on them. People in Texas are freezing to death today after the ice storm. They should have relied more on fossil fuel plants.

Some of them do, if they've been built for that kind of service. There are wind powered generators in Alaska and Yukon.

The real take away from the Texas situation - unregulated utilities are a good deal until they're not, and then things fail and get catastrophically expensive at the same time. That Texas has its own energy management and is not part of the national grid left them to scrounge for megawatts anywhere they could find them.

Weather conditions were predicted a week ahead and wind generation providers adjusted their output predictions accordingly. In some places generation was below those expectations while in other locales, the wind generation exceeded expectations. Likewise, the effect of weather on solar generation is known and impact can be reasonably estimated. The "grid" managers see what's coming and have capacity brought on and off line as needed. For a variety of reasons (both technical and "market") Texas was unable to generate enough electricity to avoid extended power losses... but the predicted loss of wind/solar generation might have been met had the fossil fuel power plants and pipelines remained in operation or worked at all.