The reality vs the hype?

[carybosse]

Originally Posted by radar

No. I mean sometimes we choose public chargers BECAUSE they are slower. Otherwise we use Tesla superchargers. Public chargers for Tesla drivers can be handy if one needs a little more time to do whatever you need to do. But you are correct, non Tesla drivers have no choice. But I suspect this will improve, both from the car and charger charge speed standpoint. There are already some 350 kw units at Volkswagens Electrify America and Electrify Canada stations although the vast majority are still 50 or 100 kw units, at least in our experience. The 50 kw units are great for extended lunch or shopping situations, which is probably why they are commonly found at touristy spots or shopping areas.

Cheers.

Interesting tidbit I pull from this: The "PUBLIC" chargers popping up in various mall and shopping center parking lots are probably not max output, if for no other reason than to keep us shopping and dining longer. Of course, the engineer in me says that the costs to put in 6 @ 50 KW chargers is probably similar to the costs to put in 4 @ 100 KW chargers, so you can service more vehicles, albeit at a lower charging rate.

I know at a charging area at a local Town Center shopping area with a Container Store, I once drove by and there had to be 10 Tesla vehicles all charging, presumably at Tesla stations. Makes me wonder now if there was a dealer doing something, as I have never seen it like that since.

I see, very infrequently but a little more often lately, EV charging stations. Frankly, I don't go looking at them and probably wouldn't know what I was looking for. I can't tell you if they are Tesla stations, public stations, 50 KW, 100 KW or 350 KW. Although armed with this bit of knowledge, I may wander over and look more closely. (Note a little bit of knowledge is very dangerous.)

At shopping malls and restaurants, I probably don't care about the charger output. On the highway and biways of rural America, I fall into the Tim the Toolman variation on chargers, "MORE POWER!"

[carybosse]

Just saw this - sounds like they are at least looking to 150 KW charging stations. Better than the 50 KW, probably still a chore to charge up an RV that I expect will have a huge battery on board. Every 50 miles along interstate.

Of course, the government is involved, I will be charging up my electric wheelchair before this is accomplished. Wonder how long it will take to get a full charge at 150 KW and if I can make it to the next station 50 miles down the road?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-adm...133628420.html

[radar]

Originally Posted by carybosse

Just saw this - sounds like they are at least looking to 150 KW charging stations. Better than the 50 KW, probably still a chore to charge up an RV that I expect will have a huge battery on board. Every 50 miles along interstate.

Of course, the government is involved, I will be charging up my electric wheelchair before this is accomplished. Wonder how long it will take to get a full charge at 150 KW and if I can make it to the next station 50 miles down the road?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-adm...133628420.html

I’m certainly no expert but I suspect the first motorhomes will be class B’s built on Van chassis. I would think big battery banks used on Motorhome type vehicles would be 800 volt systems so they will probably be able to use 350 kw chargers. Who knows. I’ll take a guess at 2025 until some integrator comes up with a small electric Motorhome. Maybe they’ll build it on a Tesla semi chassis.

[carybosse]

Originally Posted by radar

I’m certainly no expert but I suspect the first motorhomes will be class B’s built on Van chassis. I would think big battery banks used on Motorhome type vehicles would be 800 volt systems so they will probably be able to use 350 kw chargers. Who knows. I’ll take a guess at 2025 until some integrator comes up with a small electric Motorhome. Maybe they’ll build it on a Tesla semi chassis.

I would think that you are correct with the van chassis for the first MHs. I haven't studied the GM design, but from comments I have heard on a truck website with regards to the GM modular design, it would seem like a good fit for this.

Tesla is sort of a wildcard on this in my eyes. He marches to a different drummer, so how Tesla might approach this market, or if they approach it, is anyone's guess.

[radar]

Originally Posted by carybosse

I would think that you are correct with the van chassis for the first MHs. I haven't studied the GM design, but from comments I have heard on a truck website with regards to the GM modular design, it would seem like a good fit for this.

Tesla is sort of a wildcard on this in my eyes. He marches to a different drummer, so how Tesla might approach this market, or if they approach it, is anyone's guess.

I’m guessing they won’t. But I’ll bet there will be third part integrators that will buy Teslas or other brand EV semi’s and integrate a super C motorhome around them.

Jmho.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by radar

Yah good point kid. Ok. Here we go. I copied and pasted your questions so i won’t miss any. (I suck at this stuff). Keep in mind this probably doesn’t reflect the lightning or Rivian and I know nothing about them.


What is the weight of your trailer?

Around 1540 kilograms…ish. Fully loaded.


What was your average traveling speed?

I don’t know about average but we travel at max 90 kmh. The prairies had higher speed limits but that has always been my towing comfort speed with a short wheel base vehicle.


What was your energy consumption in km/kWh while towing?

Unknown but I’ll say 250 to 400 watts per kilometre depending on conditions, mountains etc.


What was your typical driving distance between charges?

We stopped at every supercharger. They are anywhere from 220 kilometres to 100 kilometres apart. It really varies.


What was your average driving distance per day?

Anywhere from 50 to 600 kilometres depending on wether we were touring or dead heading.


What were the temperatures during your trip?

Minus 3 to plus 17.


Did you utilize Tesla charging stations?
If so, was it ever necessary to disconnect the trailer to access the charging station?

We used primarily tesla superchargers except when there were charging opportunities at public chargers in touristy locations. And once when we wanted a slower charge as we had lunch and then went shopping.

In 6 provinces we had to disconnect once, that was at a mall in Airdrie Alberta. I would say that about half of the superchargers we used had a single trailer stall. The rest we just took up 2 or 3 stalls. If there was any chance of inconveniencing somebody we disconnected the trailer. (Happened once).

. On the long days we would supercharge 3 times, typically 20 to 30 minutes. Once in the morning, once at lunch and once in the afternoon. We also charge in campgrounds at night and start out with a full charge.

Wow. Lots of typing. Hope that helps Mike. Here is a picture of our combo. It’s a little 18 foot trailer but works well for us. If ford or Rivian ever produce their long range versions (next year apparently) it should make towing little trailers easier than a mid size SUV like ours.

Thanks.

If we convert watts/km to km/kWh, your estimate is 2.5-4.0 km/kWh while towing a 1500kg/3500lb trailer at speeds below 90kph/55mph. Would it be reasonable to say that driving on the same roads at the same speeds without the trailer that the car might average 6km/kWh, or more?

If so, we’re looking at a decrease in range of 33-58%. Do the Superchargers still have the limitation of Supercharging from 20-80% SOC, or has that changed? We just need to be clear on whether or not those 20-30 minute charging sessions leave the car with a fully charged battery or one at 80%. If the latter, there will be 20% less range available after each Supercharger stop than there was on the initial leg of the trip, assuming it was started with a fully charged battery.

I’d imagine that an F-150 would have a similar loss of range while towing. Quite likely that truck will be towing a trailer that weighs twice what yours weighs. And here in the States, you rarely see a trailer being towed at 55mph.

[radar]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

Thanks.

If we convert watts/km to km/kWh, your estimate is 2.5-4.0 km/kWh while towing a 1500kg/3500lb trailer at speeds below 90kph/55mph. Would it be reasonable to say that driving on the same roads at the same speeds without the trailer that the car might average 6km/kWh, or more?

If so, we’re looking at a decrease in range of 33-58%. Do the Superchargers still have the limitation of Supercharging from 20-80% SOC, or has that changed? We just need to be clear on whether or not those 20-30 minute charging sessions leave the car with a fully charged battery or one at 80%. If the latter, there will be 20% less range available after each Supercharger stop than there was on the initial leg of the trip, assuming it was started with a fully charged battery.

I’d imagine that an F-150 would have a similar loss of range while towing. Quite likely that truck will be towing a trailer that weighs twice what yours weighs. And here in the States, you rarely see a trailer being towed at 55mph.

So yah Mike. I remember travelling in the US. Speed limits are higher there for sure. We do see 110 kph zones (especially in the prairies) but there is a lot of 90 kph.

6 kilometres is a good number to use although I think our life time average is closer to 6.4. Haven’t checked lately.

Superchargers have no restrictions on how high you can charge to although other than lunch time we rarely charge over 90 percent before we are ready to roll. Almost always by the time we have used the bathroom, refilled the coffee cups and walked the chihuahua we are charged. I’m really not sure what the max range would be as we always operate on the top 3/4 of the “tank”. Force of habit from the gas tank days. And heads up, the last 10 percent on a battery fills slower. But yah, it’s not uncommon at lunch to leave with a 100 percent battery. But usually not on our morning or afternoon session. We have kinda got a schedule that works for us and the chihuahua. At least to date we have rarely ever waited anywhere to charge.

For a younger guy with a smaller prostate I’m sure they wouldn’t want to stop as much as us. In my opinion if you are trying to cover ground and don’t want a relaxed schedule I would go with a gas or better yet a diesel SUV like a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel…although I’m not sure if it’s still available.

I can’t comment on the electric half tons but I am interested. Should be better when they actually start producing the long range version next year. Rivian has also delayed their long range version till next year. Bummer.

[move on]

Originally Posted by radar

So yah Mike. I remember travelling in the US. Speed limits are higher there for sure. We do see 110 kph zones (especially in the prairies) but there is a lot of 90 kph.

6 kilometres is a good number to use although I think our life time average is closer to 6.4. Haven’t checked lately.

Superchargers have no restrictions on how high you can charge to although other than lunch time we rarely charge over 90 percent before we are ready to roll. Almost always by the time we have used the bathroom, refilled the coffee cups and walked the chihuahua we are charged. I’m really not sure what the max range would be as we always operate on the top 3/4 of the “tank”. Force of habit from the gas tank days. And heads up, the last 10 percent on a battery fills slower. But yah, it’s not uncommon at lunch to leave with a 100 percent battery. But usually not on our morning or afternoon session. We have kinda got a schedule that works for us and the chihuahua. At least to date we have rarely ever waited anywhere to charge.

For a younger guy with a smaller prostate I’m sure they wouldn’t want to stop as much as us. In my opinion if you are trying to cover ground and don’t want a relaxed schedule I would go with a gas or better yet a diesel SUV like a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel…although I’m not sure if it’s still available.

I can’t comment on the electric half tons but I am interested. Should be better when they actually start producing the long range version next year. Rivian has also delayed their long range version till next year. Bummer.

The Grand Cherokee diesel seems to be gone for 2022. Instead it is replaced by a 2.0 liter I-4 PHEV. Too bad. The I-4 PHEV seems to be an economical and powerful enough power train but it won't be able to tow like the diesel.

[Kid Gloves]

Yes, the diesel engine option is not available in the 2022 GC. We’re trading in the diesel version when the PHEV arrives. The diesel tows like a beast. We just don’t tow that much and I have a more capable truck for that purpose. The Jeep is a grocery getter and a toad. In those roles it will greatly reduce our expenditures on fuel. Between the 2 PHEV’s, we’ll probably not be buying 400-500 gallons of diesel, each year, than we bought before changing vehicles. That frees up a couple grand to dump in the coach.

[radar]

Originally Posted by move on

The Grand Cherokee diesel seems to be gone for 2022. Instead it is replaced by a 2.0 liter I-4 PHEV. Too bad. The I-4 PHEV seems to be an economical and powerful enough power train but it won't be able to tow like the diesel.

That’s too bad. That was a nice drivetrain combo. We have had a few jeeps. Our grand Cherokee was a pig on gas and had starting issues in really cold weather, but it was a very comfortable and nice little SUV. If I remember correctly it had a tow rating of 5000 pounds but it in no way comes even close to the towing experience of the Tesla model Y. But it also had no where near the horsepower as the model Y.

Everybody has different transportation and towing needs. This combo is just perfect for us.

[radar]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

Yes, the diesel engine option is not available in the 2022 GC. We’re trading in the diesel version when the PHEV arrives. The diesel tows like a beast. We just don’t tow that much and I have a more capable truck for that purpose. The Jeep is a grocery getter and a toad. In those roles it will greatly reduce our expenditures on fuel. Between the 2 PHEV’s, we’ll probably not be buying 400-500 gallons of diesel, each year, than we bought before changing vehicles. That frees up a couple grand to dump in the coach.

Nephew has a Jeep PHEV on order. Quite a long wait though. Not sure but I don’t think it arrives till next year. Looks interesting though.

[move on]

Pretty cool rig. I'm going to talk to my wife about downsizing.

The Grand Cherokee I-4 PHEV is rated to tow 6000 lbs. Pretty impressive for a 2.0 liter engine if you ask me.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by 1JetDoc

I still can't understand all these MORONS who actually think they are saving the planet by driving an electric car. Where do you think the electricity used to charge your batteries comes from? It doesn't just magically appear out of thin air. Wind turbines don't work when the wind doesn't blow (OR when it blows too hard!). Solar doesn't work when the sun doesn't shine.

More than75% of all electricity produced in the United States is still dependent on burning fossil fuels like coal and natural gas! NOBODY is saving the planet by driving an electric car! They are just moving their carbon footprint from the individual vehicle to a central generating station.

Speaking of saving the earth... The fiberglass blades for wind turbines have to be replaced about every 10 years. Solar panels last for about 15-20 years before they quit working and have to be replaced. The batteries in an electric car are good for 7-10 years. NONE of these can be recycled! We are creating new landfills all over the country to bury this toxic waste!

Even the average moron isn’t paying $5.00 a gallon or more for fuel. Some of the brighter ones are actually able to charge their cars from solar panels on their house. They’ve listened and learned and many of them share correct and accurate data with others who are willing to learn.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by radar

Nephew has a Jeep PHEV on order. Quite a long wait though. Not sure but I don’t think it arrives till next year. Looks interesting though.

The salesman could only guess and said 3-5 months. Jeep has said this winter and it will be released as a 2023. The Dieselgate v2.0 deluxe extended warranty on our current Jeep is good through May of 2023. We want to be out of the car before the warranty expires.