Volvo Trucks open another Heavy EV Truck Production Line

[brucemcdou]

Not specific to RVs, but as more and more heavy electrified trucks get out on the road, the testing and the experience will be gained that will ultimately result in electrified drivable RVs (in my ideal future world...). Plus the necessary heavy charging infrastructure (for pull-through, high speed, etc.) will be built out.

Volvo has started a fourth EV production line at their existing heavy factory in Ghent Belgium. This is to produce Class 6, 7 and 8 trucks - i.e., heavy trucks up to full semi- or tractor sized trucks for highway use. The other lines already operating are in France, the US, and Sweden (home of Volvo).

Press release here:
https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/ne...-in-ghent.html

[DrivingDan]

Very cool. If you happen to follow Tesla Bjorn’s channel (he’s a Thai guy living on Norway, but seems very American to me so you figure that out) you’ll see lots of Volvo and other electric trucks in his videos (Norway primarily but I think I’ve seen videos in Germany and such). Norway having 80% new cars sold being electric and presently at 20% is the world leader for EV adoption.

It also kills the idea that EV’s aren’t good for the cold, he regularly does road trips up to the Arctic Circle in one EV or another (car camping in zero degree weather using EV ‘camping mode’ which keeps the cabin warm). By the way that makes for a great talking point when somebody complains about the grid or whatever reason they invent as to why we can’t do EV’s. These folks (bless their hearts) are usually pro-America, so I counter with “what, you think the Norwegians can solve this but we can’t?” Fair warning, they won’t say anything and then just whataboutism on something else.

Anyhow Bjorn’s channel shows how they’re solving the charging problem for the trucks and EV’s. They’ve got some home grown EV companies making really good chargers it seems, like Kempower and others.

[DrivingDan]

Related, reminded me of a recent article on independent testing of Tesla semi trucks

Independent Tesla Semi Testing Reveals Real-World Range Figures

The Run On Less Electric Depot takes place over 18 days and just two days in, the three Tesla trucks involved are scoring high marks. On day one, truck one went 416 miles (670 km) and ended its day with just over 18 percent state of charge. On day two, it went 406 miles (654 km) but finished with just over seven percent of battery capacity left.

Truck two went 376 miles (605 km) on day one and finished with just over 15 percent battery life. On day two it went just 223 miles (359 km) but finished with nearly half of its range intact at 48 percent battery. The biggest single day for any of the trucks came on day one for truck three.

It went 545 miles (877 km) but did require a charge mid-way after depleting almost all of its battery after 377 miles (607 km) . Day two for the third Tesla Semi went well too with a touch over 18 percent battery left after a 410-mile (660 km) journey. All of this seems to indicate that at least for single-day trips, the Tesla Semi is a sincerely capable freight-hauling machine.

[brucemcdou]

Originally Posted by DrivingDan

Related, reminded me of a recent article on independent testing of Tesla semi trucks

Independent Tesla Semi Testing Reveals Real-World Range Figures

Thanks for flagging this Dan, had not seen it yet. I'll be curious to read this and other analyses to start to tease out the impacts of aero/speed, stop-and-go driving vs. steady highway speeds, and mountains/hills on range of such large, heavy and high-profile vehicles. Our usual RV drive when we're doing a weekend in the moho involves lots of stop-and-go on Bay Area freeways (good for range) and relatively low highway speeds (20 - 50 mph averages) (also good for range) and lots of up and down on hills (depends).

[DrivingDan]

Here’s another one. Lots of opinion pieces in his channel but he also covers the news

Pepsi’s Semi drives 1600 miles in less than 48 hours - fully loaded

https://youtu.be/VTRkMb3K1tY?si=99F9a5TxdrcCN2MS

I think all this shows actually how easy electrification is. In 1900, the jump from hay burners to fossil burners was a thousand times harder. We had to develop not just the automotive technology, but much harder the technology and infrastructure to transport the fuel all over the world (and build the roads for them to drive on). We already have the grid, we already have 60,000 public EVSE’s in the US alone, I just don’t get the teeth gnashing about electrifying cars, trucks and other transport.

[radar]

Interesting though that Volvo is completely getting out of the diesel car business and concentrating on electric.

https://electrek.co/2023/09/19/volvo...ectric-future/

[DrivingDan]

I think the Japanese OEM’s are the only ones dragging their feet. EU OEM’s (except Stellantis) and GM were some of the first. South Korea too - Hyundai saw their chance to jump into first tier and went all in on the Ioniq which looks like a great car.

[dbircky]

People lose their minds waiting at fuel pumps now. When there are tens of thousands of such trucks on the road it'll be hilarious to see the lines waiting to charge and the folks waiting for hours. Mega charger claim is 90 minutes for a full charge. The logistics and economics don't make sense. The two truck stops nearest to me each have over 100 spaces. Just using 100: if each parking space has a terminal for overnight 250k charging that's a minimum of 50,000k plus however many mega chargers at an additional 1m per. Let's say there's a total of 24 (same as number of current diesel pumps) 24 million watts plus another 50 million watts for the overnight chargers. I don't think the grid here will come close to supporting an additional 74 megawatts. That's the equivalent of an additional 55,500 homes being added in a very small footprint. That is just the needs of two adjacent truck stops.

One thing I will like to see IF semis all go electric - they won't be hogging up rest stops at night because they won't be charging there. There will be plenty of room for my diesel MH.

[radar]

Originally Posted by dbircky

People lose their minds waiting at fuel pumps now. When there are tens of thousands of such trucks on the road it'll be hilarious to see the lines waiting to charge and the folks waiting for hours. Mega charger claim is 90 minutes for a full charge. The logistics and economics don't make sense. The two truck stops nearest to me each have over 100 spaces. Just using 100: if each parking space has a terminal for overnight 250k charging that's a minimum of 50,000k plus however many mega chargers at an additional 1m per. Let's say there's a total of 24 (same as number of current diesel pumps) 24 million watts plus another 50 million watts for the overnight chargers. I don't think the grid here will come close to supporting an additional 74 megawatts. That's the equivalent of an additional 55,500 homes being added in a very small footprint. That is just the needs of two adjacent truck stops.

One thing I will like to see IF semis all go electric - they won't be hogging up rest stops at night because they won't be charging there. There will be plenty of room for my diesel MH.

Typical megacharger stop for existing tesla semi drivers is 45 minutes.

The grid will grow as needed. Power companies like to sell power.

The most efficient grid is a grid that operates at close to max capacity.

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by dbircky

People lose their minds waiting at fuel pumps now … When there are tens of thousands of such trucks on the road it'll be hilarious to see the lines waiting to charge and the folks waiting for hours

Hand waving. Your fault is applying today’s logic to tomorrows world. The Horse and Buggy proponents made the same mistake

Just using 100: if each parking space has a terminal for overnight 250k charging that's a minimum of 50,000k plus however many mega chargers at an additional 1m per. Let's say there's a total of 24 (same as number of current diesel pumps) 24 million watts plus another 50 million watts for the overnight chargers.

Mistake - you’re assuming a constant charging rate - EV’s charge on a curve so averaged it’s quite a bit less than maximum.

I don't think the grid here will come close to supporting an additional 74 megawatts. That's the equivalent of an additional 55,500 homes being added in a very small footprint. That is just the needs of two adjacent truck stops.

You know what the biggest problem is? Regulation. It’s not stringing lines and bringing more power online, that’s easy. In the US at least the red tape to install a new gas line is nothing compared to an electrical, due to obscure reasons. It’s a freaking wire, this is not hard people. I’m an engineer and it’s a kick to read amateur engineering opinions of what’s hard. On this problem the hard part has been solved, now we’re in the ‘git ‘er done’ phase.

One thing I will like to see IF semis all go electric - they won't be hogging up rest stops at night because they won't be charging there. There will be plenty of room for my diesel MH.

You’ll have long upgraded to an EV MH because of the lower insurance (their safer), better ride, features and vastly lower running costs

Originally Posted by radar

Typical megacharger stop for existing tesla semi drivers is 45 minutes.

The grid will grow as needed. Power companies like to sell power.

The most efficient grid is a grid that operates at close to max capacity.

Correct!

[DrivingDan]

Oh I should add - any areas where it’s too much bother to string lines they’ll just add grid storage. In fact it’s already being done all over the world. One, they make money via arbitrage. Two, make money by providing frequency services (frequency stability to providers). Three, as a repository for grid under subscription. It’s a great investment, one time capital write off and you print money from there on with little to no running costs.

[dbircky]

Lower insurance on evs? You wouldn't want to bet on that would you?
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-insurance...igh-1850352566
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...e-even-hybrids
Further: On average, 1.48 deaths occur for every 100 million vehicles. But the fatality rate is approximately 0.44 fatalities per 100 million for RVs. Since RVs’ fatality rate is about a third of all other motorized vehicles, they are three times safer than other vehicles.

Unless there's some magic reason an ev mh won't follow that trend.....

Tesla says 45 minutes for a partial charge. How long for a full charge? Freightliners say about 90 minutes, and that's a total claimed range of 230 miles. I don't know about you, but I don't fill my fuel tank to 80% capacity. If I did, I sure wouldn't have what the advertised claimed range to refuel would be.

https://www.makeuseof.com/problems-w...c-semi-trucks/

I'm not following that not all chargers will be in use at once. Is there some manner that the trucks pulling in will be staggered as to who gets more juice? What if a driver pulls in for dinner, say a 60 minute stop, and because a couple others pulled in before him they get the higher flow and he gets less juice? There are times here when a steady flow of semis are pulling in for the night. The truck stop would have to have capacity for those times. Of course if it's just a 60 minute stop he'll be using one of the higher priced fast chargers.

Don't worry, I'll be driving my diesel for a long time. If more cars go electric, that will reduce demand on fuel thus lowering the price. An EV MH will be nothing more than a fraction of the market. The average rv is used 20 days a year and travels under 5,000 miles annually. The house portion wears out long before the chassis.

Full disclosure, I'm not an engineer (thanks for the compliment?). Of the 10 greatest inventions of the last 1,000 years only one (Antanasoff had his undergraduate in electrical engineering and a masters in math and phd in physics) was from an engineer. I'm willing to bet many reading this have cursed their share of engineers who put oil filters above frame rails or designed engines that need to be removed to change a timing belt ala Audi. I won't even mention the educated engineers that designed those troublesome def systems. Practicality and engineering aren't always in sync.

[radar]

Originally Posted by dbircky

Lower insurance on evs? You wouldn't want to bet on that would you?
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-insurance...igh-1850352566
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...e-even-hybrids
Further: On average, 1.48 deaths occur for every 100 million vehicles. But the fatality rate is approximately 0.44 fatalities per 100 million for RVs. Since RVs’ fatality rate is about a third of all other motorized vehicles, they are three times safer than other vehicles.

Unless there's some magic reason an ev mh won't follow that trend.....

Tesla says 45 minutes for a partial charge. How long for a full charge? Freightliners say about 90 minutes, and that's a total claimed range of 230 miles. I don't know about you, but I don't fill my fuel tank to 80% capacity. If I did, I sure wouldn't have what the advertised claimed range to refuel would be.

https://www.makeuseof.com/problems-w...c-semi-trucks/

I'm not following that not all chargers will be in use at once. Is there some manner that the trucks pulling in will be staggered as to who gets more juice? What if a driver pulls in for dinner, say a 60 minute stop, and because a couple others pulled in before him they get the higher flow and he gets less juice? There are times here when a steady flow of semis are pulling in for the night. The truck stop would have to have capacity for those times. Of course if it's just a 60 minute stop he'll be using one of the higher priced fast chargers.

Don't worry, I'll be driving my diesel for a long time. If more cars go electric, that will reduce demand on fuel thus lowering the price. An EV MH will be nothing more than a fraction of the market. The average rv is used 20 days a year and travels under 5,000 miles annually. The house portion wears out long before the chassis.

Full disclosure, I'm not an engineer (thanks for the compliment?). Of the 10 greatest inventions of the last 1,000 years only one (Antanasoff had his undergraduate in electrical engineering and a masters in math and phd in physics) was from an engineer. I'm willing to bet many reading this have cursed their share of engineers who put oil filters above frame rails or designed engines that need to be removed to change a timing belt ala Audi. I won't even mention the educated engineers that designed those troublesome def systems. Practicality and engineering aren't always in sync.

People don’t run their batteries to empty any more than a liquid fueled vehicle runs their tank to empty. So a typical fuel or electron fill is never 100 percent.

As well, typical road trip recharging is usually only to 85 percent as charging slows down after that. It’s common to start a road trip at 100 percent on the battery, but road trip recharges are typically around 80 to 85 percent.

Tesla semis have double the range of Freightliner semis and are used in different roles. They also charge much faster at the four megachargers that already exist. 3 at Pepsi depots and one at the Nevada factory.

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by dbircky

Lower insurance on evs? You wouldn't want to bet on that would you?

Sure would! All the car safe smarts are going in to EV’s preferentially, combined with features such as regenerative braking being a back up brake system (that starts the brake cycle the moment you lift from the pedal). In addition that in the not distant future I won’t be surprised to see taxes and fees levied against smog producers due to the environmental burden.

I'm not following that not all chargers will be in use at once.

The charge curve is non linear. It’s not a fridge you plug in and it uses a constant rate, a false analogy I heard a Senator use recently. The amount the EV pulls is dependent on the state of charge. So unless you have a bunch of vehicles which pull up - with equal sized batteries and the same SOC - you won’t get all pulling the same (maximal) rate.

Besides which it’s all a red herring - grids are designed with this same principle - no two customers are using the exact same power at the same time. It all averages out due to different usage.

If more cars go electric, that will reduce demand on fuel thus lowering the price.

Again linear thinking, as petrol demand declines uneconomic providers go offline, subsidies built into the system will decline, and you lose economies of scale. Meaning it will get more and more expensive. Come on - look at the prices of anything that isn’t mainstream anymore, last I checked it’s vastly more expensive to be a film shooter versus digital.

Not to mention the value of that diesel pusher will plummet as the market floods with Last Years Obsolescence that’s expensive to run, and getting harder to maintain and find parts for.

Full disclosure, I'm not an engineer (thanks for the compliment?). Of the 10 greatest inventions of the last 1,000 years only one (Antanasoff had his blah blah …

No worries, my degrees are in Physics. But saying “once upon a time I had a car with a filter that was placed in a hard to access” as some kind of statement about the engineering field is laughable. You should thank the engineer of that engine for all the work he did to not put it in an even worse place

n.b.
Which honestly is a serious point. Users like to bad mouth designs, again being amateur engineers they think they have a better solution, but they never realize that (for example) - placing that in a better place would have reduced performance, increased cost, increased complexity or one of any other …