Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Electric RVs and EV Charging
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-26-2021, 01:16 PM   #169
Senior Member
 
dbircky's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
Coastal Campers
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
Wow your DP gets 800 miles per gallon, amazing.

Thatís what I get for not using a calculator. Itís only 8.2 mpg. So 41,000 gallons will only cover 336,200 miles. My mistake. Still doesnít make the cost delta a good financial decision.
__________________
2009 Monaco Camelot 42PDQ
2011 JK
dbircky is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-26-2021, 01:25 PM   #170
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky View Post
Thatís what I get for not using a calculator. Itís only 8.2 mpg. So 41,000 gallons will only cover 336,200 miles. My mistake. Still doesnít make the cost delta a good financial decision.
RV are great financial decisions right. Also engines, transmissions and and generators and house batteries aren't free. I believe an ISX is $30,000.

Average Semi cost is around $150,000 and Tesla is selling theirs for $180,000 with a supposedly $123,000 battery so obviously other costs are much less with a BEV.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 01:59 PM   #171
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 928
Another reason you will never see a Tesla semi, aside from the handful that Bezos ordered, is that the batteries are so heavy that you can't carry as much cargo. You will therefore have to order more semis and hire more drivers to deliver your freight. No freight company is going to buy into this idea.
move on is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 02:29 PM   #172
Senior Member
 
dbircky's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
Coastal Campers
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
RV are great financial decisions right. Also engines, transmissions and and generators and house batteries aren't free. I believe an ISX is $30,000.



Average Semi cost is around $150,000 and Tesla is selling theirs for $180,000 with a supposedly $123,000 battery so obviously other costs are much less with a BEV.


Selling? Last I heard Enron was taking $20,000 cash for each reservation with no delivery date. Glad to hear they are in use.
__________________
2009 Monaco Camelot 42PDQ
2011 JK
dbircky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 02:57 PM   #173
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by move on View Post
Another reason you will never see a Tesla semi, aside from the handful that Bezos ordered, is that the batteries are so heavy that you can't carry as much cargo. You will therefore have to order more semis and hire more drivers to deliver your freight. No freight company is going to buy into this idea.
745 notable orders publicly known so far, none of them Amazon or Bezos. Walmart, Pepsi and UPS are the big ones.

Amazon is notably developing their own BEV delivery van with Rivian which is in testing now, I am sure the Class B crowd will be looking at them.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 03:08 PM   #174
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky View Post
Selling? Last I heard Enron was taking $20,000 cash for each reservation with no delivery date. Glad to hear they are in use.
Enron thats a good one, yes you are right, its an expected cost with a $20,000 deposit and no firm delivery date and already behind schedule so who knows until its actually shipping. It seems to be getting closer as the production line seems to be almost ready:

https://electrek.co/2021/07/20/tesla...to-production/
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 07:42 PM   #175
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
As an engineer I know a good design when I see it, ....... The only thing holding them back is battery cost and weight ......
Thanks for taking the time to reply. You just described a bad design. Cost and weight is good enough reasons for me not to buy a BEV.

I was a mechanical engineering in the nuclear industry. Safety is important.

As a I have stated storing energy is difficult. If it gets loose it can kill you

It is the speed and the amount of energy released. If there is an engine fire or an electrical fire (12 vdc or 120 vac) in my motorhome, I have time to get safely away. Loss of property not life.

I was leading an integrated hazard analysis team. There was an issue with the relief valve sizing. If the wrong amount of A was added to be B, the relief would lift. We determined it was safe.

While I was documenting our findings, I thought about what would happen if the right amount of A was added to the wrong amount B. So I sent an email to the chemical engineer on the team.

Next thing I know they are evacuating the building. When doing the calculation, the engineer realized the rate of power increase would destroy first the pressure vessel and then the building. He hit the panic button.

My team was doing the safety review of a new process line. We were on a tight deadline because construction had begun and the designers had forgot about the safety review. I am afraid my email had a bit of sarcasm. I saw the managers heading for warehouse to look at the expensive piece of equipment that would save time and money.

I watched a video of a electric bus in China have a fire that lead to an explosion. No one was killed.

Safety codes are written in blood.
__________________
Kit & Rita (in memory)
37 foot Ď98 HolidayRambler Endeavor diesel pusher
followingsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2021, 08:16 PM   #176
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
Yeah no, do the math, we are talking a 900 kWh battery, 50 amp campground service is 12kw (50a*240v), ....
On 50 amp now. L1 = 119 vac, L2v=122 vac

Started second A/C, both at 120 vac

I am the only one on 50 amps today. Yesterday I was on 30 amp with two rigs closer to the power power. MH next downstream on 30 amps told me he tripped when two A/C.

Normally I like to be on the far end for the view even if the voltage drop means no A/C.

We are often full on the weekend with wagons circled up using extension cords to 20 amp outlets.

Some of us are discussing doubling campsites. It would require a new pole. We also have a member with a Tesla. He paid for an annual pass for the campground to plugin.

Another 100 oil rail tankers just went by.

The point is that adding large loads to the campground grid is noticed by others and diesel is not going away.
__________________
Kit & Rita (in memory)
37 foot Ď98 HolidayRambler Endeavor diesel pusher
followingsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2021, 08:50 AM   #177
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by followingsea View Post
You just described a bad design. Cost and weight is good enough reasons for me not to buy a BEV.
Thats a very myopic view, weight and cost are not the only factors in good design otherwise why would you buy a diesel pusher over the same sized gas motorhome that weighs less and cost less?

Quote:
Originally Posted by followingsea View Post
I was leading an integrated hazard analysis team.
Then what data are you basing your risk assessment on? All the data I have shows EV's are ten times less likely to have a fire than gas or diesel. It seems like you are basing your view on feelings not data as a safety engineer would. In fact Teslas have one of the highest safety ratings of any car ever made, because of how small the electric motors are and the bulk of the mass the battery is extremely low and centered it has very good crumple zones and body structure along with very good emergency handling characteristics.

Yes EV fire are difficult to put out if they do occur, so is a fiberglass diesel RV fire, which is more dangerous, how do you know?
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2021, 08:56 AM   #178
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by followingsea View Post
The point is that adding large loads to the campground grid is noticed by others and diesel is not going away.
Yep campsites will need to be upgraded, as I said I could imagine higher tier EV sites just like 30 vs 50 amp. The will need meters to charge you for the large amounts of electricity and upgraded service to handle continuous loads. Will be way easier than installing a diesel pump at the site and much more convenient than filling up at a station if your destination can charge the RV overnight.

For the way I travel cross country if I could drive up to 8 hours on a charge and be able to get a site that could recharge in 8 hours it would be nearly perfect to get anywhere and eliminate the whole fueling ceremony find pumps that work with my toad.

I would still want high speed stations as an option which if electric semis take off that won't be an issue, but campsite recharge would be really nice.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2021, 09:52 PM   #179
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
Thats a very myopic view, weight and cost are not the only factors in good design otherwise why would you buy a diesel pusher over the same sized gas motorhome that weighs less and cost less?



Then what data are you basing your risk assessment on? ....
Myotic seems a little contradictory. Of course weight and cost are very important when considering transportation.

When I came back from the nuke plant in China to retire, I needed a box truck to move our furniture. Found one for $9k with only 40k miles.

It was a 32' vintage HR gasser. Turns out we loved being full time in an EV but DW wanted something a little bigger. So a few years later we started looking. After we found what DW wanted in a gasser, keeping an open mind, I test drove two DP with the same features.

I determined that a DP was worth the extra cost for handling and climbing hills but DW was not happy about that.

As far as data goes, it sounds like you are confusing marketing with safety standards.

Bought DW a new 2007 Corolla. If the dealer had been able to provide data that the Pious was worth the higher cost, then maybe I would own a hybrid. Both cars met safety standards.

Point here there is a whole marketing team trying to make you think spending more money is a good idea.
__________________
Kit & Rita (in memory)
37 foot Ď98 HolidayRambler Endeavor diesel pusher
followingsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2021, 09:01 AM   #180
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by followingsea View Post
I determined that a DP was worth the extra cost for handling and climbing hills but DW was not happy about that.
So what your saying is a heavier more expensive vehicle was a better design to you due to performance and handling, that sounds like what I hear EV owners say over and over. So obviously your statement that "Cost and weight is good enough reasons for me not to buy" is not actually true even when you shop for a motorhome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by followingsea View Post
As far as data goes, it sounds like you are confusing marketing with safety standards.
Yet you seem to be making statements about safety with no data to back it up, again I ask what are you basing your risk assessment on?

The Tesla Model 3 has the lowest probability of injury of any car ever tested by the NHTSA, is that marketing?

NFPA data shows Teslas have a fire 1 in every 205 million miles driven while normal cars average 1 in 19 million, thats ten times less likely to have a fire. Is that marketing?

Please point me to some other data that would make you as an engineer make a different assessment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by followingsea View Post
Point here there is a whole marketing team trying to make you think spending more money is a good idea.
Tesla has no marketing team and dissolved their PR department late last year.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2021, 08:43 PM   #181
Senior Member
 
Gordon Dewald's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 13,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by radar View Post
Snip. ď No accounting for marketing. People will pay more for pants with holes in the knees than for unblemished. Used to be a price discount for blemished goodsď.



Thatís true Gordon. But Toyota has a marketing and advertising budget in the billions of dollars. Teslaís advertising budget is exactly zero dollars.
It would appear that showmanship may be better than spending dollars.
__________________
Gordon and Janet
Tour 42QD/InTech Stacker
Gordon Dewald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 08:01 AM   #182
Senior Member
 
jharrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
It would appear that showmanship may be better than spending dollars.
Having a car that you can actually buy and that people like to drive along with some impressively engineered technology helps as well.

I agree though, I was very skeptical of Tesla for a very long time and Musk still annoys me to no end, but I have to admit he is a good engineer and obviously a good showman, those two things usually don't go together and I think its a big part of his ability to raise the investment money needed and actually deliver the goods even if after significant delays. Same with SpaceX and now Starlink.

There is a lot of empty promises in the EV space right now and outright scams (Nikola), everyone wants in, Tesla is actually delivering (cars at least) and if you dig into the engineering you will see why they have an advantage, for now.

I want to see the semi come out just to see if its possible and what its final specs are, I will also anxiously await the first rich guy to get one and make into a Super C, again just to see if it's possible and how it performs.

I have no illusions I will be able to buy an affordable electric class A any time soon or the that an electric semi will take over the trucking industry any time soon, I do think it will happen in time though, the ICE in a vehicle is reaching the end of the road.

An Electric Jeep Wrangler however as a toad I could see that being my next vehicle should one exist in the next 5-10 years.
__________________
Eagle 5 - 2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - CHF - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatics
320w solar - TriStar MPPT 60 - Magnum 3012 inverter
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
jharrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Modular Class A. Built on Tesla semi. Interesting read. radar Class A Motorhome Discussions 3 10-05-2020 08:32 AM
Tesla Semi Test Mule caught at supercharger. Video. radar Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 12 12-06-2018 10:40 AM
Tesla to unveil household Battery within months CountryFit Going Green 9 05-10-2015 04:16 PM
Tesla T3212 smarty Toy Haulers Discussion 1 11-27-2014 09:05 AM
EverGreen Unveils Full-Sized Tesla Toy Hauler DriVer RV Industry Press 3 06-07-2014 02:03 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.