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Old 06-15-2021, 09:29 AM   #29
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They are still doing it. A coworker just had it done, and saw the bill, almost identical system, $3700, and yes, their power bill dropped to zero too.
I believe there are some details missing in the message you are receiving. There is no way that a whole house solar PV system is only going to cost $3700. There is some sort of subsidy somewhere in the equation that is not being mentioned.

If there is in fact a whole house PV system on the market the only costs $3700 out the door, please let me know the details so I can get one ordered!
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:55 AM   #30
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Actually, its you that are the alarmist, and you cling to this stuff long after its been refuted:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...ets-an-update/

Once again, 5 minutes on google.....

And every now and then I see something that is the most incorrect statement on the internet. You win today for this one:
"Another issue that the CAGW alarmists don't want to talk about is the fact that a diesel engine rolling down the road has a better thermal efficiency than the average electric grid. This means it produces less CO2 than a battery powered semi.'
You see, if this was the case, every power plant out there would have a big-ass diesel running it. Shoot, we'd have grid diversity by putting diesel generators every few blocks.

Stationary power plants have high efficiencies because they can run a combustion process around a single set point, and because the larger the power source is, in general, mechanical losses become a smaller percentage of the total. Any kind of a road vehicle, especially one pulling a lot of weight, under conditions requiring constant changes in acceleration and deceleration, operate far off their most efficient set point.

I don't know what you do/did for a living, but science and engineering do not appear to be your strong suit.

As far as the departure of the head of the HD division goes, i wouldn't read that much into it.
"Tesla’s first mover advantage in electric trucks is rapidly vanishing as legacy truck manufacturers Daimler, Volvo, Kenworth and Peterbilt all are taking orders for heavy-duty electric trucks. Daimler, Volvo and Peterbilt have several dozen electric trucks in customer hands for evaluation.

Startup Nikola Corp. (NASDAQ: NKLA) expects to begin production of its battery-electric Class 8 Tre model in the fourth quarter. Imported parts kits from joint venture manufacturing partner Iveco will be assembled at a new plant under construction in Coolidge, Arizona."
Good execs are in high demand. He came from Damler and it's likely that one of the others has given him a juicy offer.

What appears to be affecting Tesla the most right now is the production rate on their highest capacity batteries. That's delaying the Semi, and the Plaid, and evidently the new Roadster.

Getting from development into production is hard. I did it for half of my career on stuff that was all hand built and you had a lot of flexibility, and its still hard. Getting from the lab to hundreds of thousands of items a day is going to have a hiccup every now and then.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:22 AM   #31
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Actually, its you that are the alarmist, and you cling to this stuff long after its been refuted:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...ets-an-update/

Once again, 5 minutes on google.....

And every now and then I see something that is the most incorrect statement on the internet. You win today for this one:
"Another issue that the CAGW alarmists don't want to talk about is the fact that a diesel engine rolling down the road has a better thermal efficiency than the average electric grid. This means it produces less CO2 than a battery powered semi.'
You see, if this was the case, every power plant out there would have a big-ass diesel running it. Shoot, we'd have grid diversity by putting diesel generators every few blocks.

Stationary power plants have high efficiencies because they can run a combustion process around a single set point, and because the larger the power source is, in general, mechanical losses become a smaller percentage of the total. Any kind of a road vehicle, especially one pulling a lot of weight, under conditions requiring constant changes in acceleration and deceleration, operate far off their most efficient set point.

I don't know what you do/did for a living, but science and engineering do not appear to be your strong suit.

As far as the departure of the head of the HD division goes, i wouldn't read that much into it.
"Tesla’s first mover advantage in electric trucks is rapidly vanishing as legacy truck manufacturers Daimler, Volvo, Kenworth and Peterbilt all are taking orders for heavy-duty electric trucks. Daimler, Volvo and Peterbilt have several dozen electric trucks in customer hands for evaluation.

Startup Nikola Corp. (NASDAQ: NKLA) expects to begin production of its battery-electric Class 8 Tre model in the fourth quarter. Imported parts kits from joint venture manufacturing partner Iveco will be assembled at a new plant under construction in Coolidge, Arizona."
Good execs are in high demand. He came from Damler and it's likely that one of the others has given him a juicy offer.

What appears to be affecting Tesla the most right now is the production rate on their highest capacity batteries. That's delaying the Semi, and the Plaid, and evidently the new Roadster.

Getting from development into production is hard. I did it for half of my career on stuff that was all hand built and you had a lot of flexibility, and its still hard. Getting from the lab to hundreds of thousands of items a day is going to have a hiccup every now and then.
A combined cycle natural gas plant can achieve 60% thermal efficiency, but that's only when it's running at full load. In practice it does less. Throw a coal plant onto the grid and that brings the efficiency down even more. Then there's the 10% line loss. The average electric grid is around 35% at the user level. Compare that to 40% for a semi's diesel engine that most of the time is running at a favorable RPM and load on the interstate. Now, deduct the heat energy lost by the electric motors, battery and inverters. Then add in the CO2 from battery production and you can begin to see how preposterous it gets. Note also, there are technological initiatives under way that are targeting diesel efficiencies of over 50%. Same for gasoline engines.

If you want to talk about electrifying transportation in the US you're going to have to accept nuclear. But 99% of CAGW alarmists are also nuclear alarmists, so I don't see much hope for you there.

By the way, I suggest you refrain from making insulting comments about other people's scientific and engineering skills. You might wind up looking like a fool.
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:37 AM   #32
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You alarmists really need to go beyond your narrow, childish worldview where happy little EVs roll merrily down the road propelled by windmills and solar panels. It's not going to happen.

Here's a little tidbit for you to contemplate. A study made for the Swedish Environmental Institute concluded that you have to drive an EV 200,000 km before it makes up for the additional CO2 used in material production and manufacturing compared to an ICE vehicle. And then after 200,000 km the battery is finished and you have to buy a new car. Lol.
Edit: I didn't notice that VanDiemen23 already mentioned this.

Are you talking about the 2017 or 2019 report?

https://www.ivl.se/english/ivl/topme...batteries.html

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...ets-an-update/

Electric vehicles look quite a bit better in the newer report.

I had a quick search through the 2019 report and didn't see any figures for the number of km needed to break even on emissions compared to a ICE vehicle. Where did you get those numbers from?

Nobody suggests that we have the perfect solution yet.
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Old 06-15-2021, 01:22 PM   #33
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...
Nobody suggests that we have the perfect solution yet.
I have several. The French run their nuke plants in load following and charge EV at night in polluted cities in this tiny country.

I will enjoy the PNW using my 5.9 ISB during the summer. Before the snow comes I will drive a 1000 miles to the desert southwest only spending 10 minutes for the one fuel stop.

So let's talk about the science of storing energy until we need it to do work based on energy density and safety.

The most common way to store energy is the chemical bond of hydrocarbons.

I can store 90 gallons of diesel fuel. Enough to travel 500 miles with a safe reserve. There are numerous ways to produce 'renewable' diesel that have been demonstrated. Using science we can measure the impact on the environment. It is also a very safe fuel to store.

U-235 atom releases huge amounts during fission. US navy nuclear ships carry decades of fuel. Proven to be the safest way to store energy.

Of course there is water in mountain lakes and coal piles sitting next to power plants. My favorite is a wood pile to keep the house warm during a power outage.

The concept of storing excess electrical power has been around a long time. It has always proven to be a bad idea and always will.

Science is the reason. It is the laws of thermodynamics.

Musk knows this. He likes to grandstand by demonstrating how to solve a difficult problem. Except he will fail.

Went to church on Sunday where I lived for many years. A friend with PhD in chemistry was telling me about his new EV.

A perfect solution for going to church on Sunday.

So what if Musk comes up with the 'ideal' battery at a low cost. Following the laws of thermodynamics it will still waste electrical power.

To store enough electricity for the range of a semi will make it too dangerous to drive on the highway.

No need to grandstand. We all ready have solutions for problems that may occur in the future.

I not in denial if my science has the solution.
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Old 06-15-2021, 01:55 PM   #34
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I have several. The French run their nuke plants in load following and charge EV at night in polluted cities in this tiny country.

I will enjoy the PNW using my 5.9 ISB during the summer. Before the snow comes I will drive a 1000 miles to the desert southwest only spending 10 minutes for the one fuel stop.

So let's talk about the science of storing energy until we need it to do work based on energy density and safety.

The most common way to store energy is the chemical bond of hydrocarbons.

I can store 90 gallons of diesel fuel. Enough to travel 500 miles with a safe reserve. There are numerous ways to produce 'renewable' diesel that have been demonstrated. Using science we can measure the impact on the environment. It is also a very safe fuel to store.

U-235 atom releases huge amounts during fission. US navy nuclear ships carry decades of fuel. Proven to be the safest way to store energy.

Of course there is water in mountain lakes and coal piles sitting next to power plants. My favorite is a wood pile to keep the house warm during a power outage.

The concept of storing excess electrical power has been around a long time. It has always proven to be a bad idea and always will.

Science is the reason. It is the laws of thermodynamics.

Musk knows this. He likes to grandstand by demonstrating how to solve a difficult problem. Except he will fail.

Went to church on Sunday where I lived for many years. A friend with PhD in chemistry was telling me about his new EV.

A perfect solution for going to church on Sunday.

So what if Musk comes up with the 'ideal' battery at a low cost. Following the laws of thermodynamics it will still waste electrical power.

To store enough electricity for the range of a semi will make it too dangerous to drive on the highway.

No need to grandstand. We all ready have solutions for problems that may occur in the future.

I not in denial if my science has the solution.
No disrespect meant and English is possibly not your first language but having a hard time following a few statements you made.

What is “load following”. Is it a mode of operation which nuclear plants use? My guess is the rest of that paragraph will make sense once “load following” is clarified.

This paragraph confused me as I don’t know what the acronym PNW stands for.
“ I will enjoy the PNW using my 5.9 ISB during the summer. Before the snow comes I will drive a 1000 miles to the desert southwest only spending 10 minutes for the one fuel stop”.

Also I would think driving a thousand miles with a single 10 minute stop is an extremely rare edge case scenario, not to mention unhealthy and unsafe. I don’t see why that would be an aspirational goal for any technology.

Just my humble opinion of course.
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:30 PM   #35
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This paragraph confused me as I don’t know what the acronym PNW stands for.
“ I will enjoy the PNW using my 5.9 ISB during the summer. Before the snow comes I will drive a 1000 miles to the desert southwest only spending 10 minutes for the one fuel stop”."

PNW - Pacific North West.

ISB - Cummins engine model line.
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:38 PM   #36
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This paragraph confused me as I don’t know what the acronym PNW stands for.
“ I will enjoy the PNW using my 5.9 ISB during the summer. Before the snow comes I will drive a 1000 miles to the desert southwest only spending 10 minutes for the one fuel stop”."

PNW - Pacific North West.

ISB - Cummins engine model line.
Ahhh. That makes sense. Thanks. I should have know that as technically BC is in the Pacific Northwest.
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:49 PM   #37
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Ahhh. That makes sense. Thanks. I should have know that as technically BC is in the Pacific Northwest.
Suppose you wanted to traverse BC and visit Whitehorse with your EV. Could you do it?
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:57 PM   #38
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Suppose you wanted to traverse BC and visit Whitehorse with your EV. Could you do it?
North to south? I doubt it. At least not using fast chargers only. The App shows level 2 opportunities all the way to Whitehorse but there is a gap of about 1300 km (corrected on edit) for DCFC. Level 2 is an overnight at a hotel type affair. But the gaps are closing fast. Last year we couldn’t get to Prince Rupert with DCFC. Now it’s not a problem. I would say the 97 North to south corridor gap will be closed in the next 3 years. DCFC chargers are pretty much doubling every year right now and BC hydro is doing a good job of covering corridors from both the convenience and safety (winter) aspect. Tesla by itself has 21 more Supercharger locations slated in BC. We haven’t experienced any limitations on where we want to travel. COVID on the other hand slowed us down for awhile.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:09 PM   #39
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How about the Cassiar highway?
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:14 PM   #40
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How about the Cassiar highway?
I’ve never looked. I’ll check it out and get back to you. But if I was in a position where I would need to do those type of routes right now or for the next 5 years I would get a hybrid. That Ford F-150 hybrid would give you the best of both worlds. Especially if you are towing. We crossed it off our list for a bunch of reasons (including that it won’t fit in our garage ) but it seems like a great truck. Especially with the generator option.

I’ll check out the Cassiar and get back to you but I’m thinking probably NO. .
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:16 PM   #41
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I had a hard time finding a gas station on the Cassiar.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:19 PM   #42
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I had a hard time finding a gas station on the Cassiar.
Yah no kidding right. I just looked at the App. There are public and private level 1 and the occasional level 2 opportunities at lodges and resorts pretty much the whole route. But honestly I would want to confirm everyone by phone first. Not something we would do...and sure as heck not in a high performance sports sedan like ours. LOL. .
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