Host Mammoth Dilemma

[TheLex]

As most folks know, these are really heavy truck campers. As spec'd out, most are about 4700 lbs dry, and by the time you add some water and all the other stuff one typically carries, the weight will likely be near 6000 lbs.

My 2017 F450 has a yellow sticker payload of about 4600 lbs. It came with the factory Reese 27.5k hitch. So let's say the hitch and tailgate (with integrated step) are removed. That's about 250 lbs less. So now I've got about 4850 lbs of payload on paper.

However, the rear axle GWR is 9900 lbs and the tires have a combined 15,800 lbs of capacity in the rear alone.

There are many folks in the Facebook Host Owners forum carrying a Host Mammoth with no issues at all. In fact, I've yet to read about any F450 owner having any issues. Most folks don't even have to add airbags or Torklift Stableloads. Heck one guy is at a GCW of 16k lbs with no suspension mods at all.

I would consider moving up to a F550 chasis cab. But those models don't come with adaptive cruise control in any available trim level. IMO adaptive cruise is a safety feature. When the sun is behind you and bright, and a car with dim taillights brakes, it's not always easy to see the brake lights have activated. With adaptive cruise I can set the distance I want to follow, and I never have to worry about encroaching into my safety zone space behind the other vehicle.

Furthermore none of the F450/550 or Ram 4500/5500 chasis cab models come with front and rear side air bags, nor do they have side curtain airbags. The only airbags these have are the front driver and passenger airbags.

If I won't put my kids inside of a Jeep Wrangler because the rear doesn't have side airbags or side curtain airbags, I'm not going to risk an accident with them in a chassis cab truck.

If I go with a F350 DRW which theoretically has a larger payload on paper (by about 500 lbs) due to the class III 14k lbs weight restriction, I have a less capable truck with 50% smaller brakes, a larger turning radius, and a less robust rear axle. Folks who gone from a F350 to a F450 and carry a Mammoth have reported that the F450 is much better at handling the load and handles and rides better. Folks with F350s typically have to add airbags and/or Torklift Stableloads, or even different rear spring packs, to improve the handing of the heavy load.

So my dilemma is do I do like everyone else and just go with my F450 pickup, knowing that I'll be technically over the yellow payload sticker, even though the F450 is actually a safer and better at carrying this big load? Do I put my kids at risk by going to a chassis cab?

From what I've read doing as many google searches as possible, in the US if one ever gets pulled over by law enforcement, they look at the gross rear axle rating and especially the tire load ratings. I've yet to read about anyone having gotten in trouble by exceeding their yellow sticker.

However, I HAVE seen reports that in British Columbia, their law enforcement does look at the yellow payload sticker. Of course it's extremely unlikely that a dually is ever going to be pulled over and inspected in the first place. It's typically the guys in the F250s with a giant loads with their rear ends sagging that get inspected. But of course it's still a risk.

Let's not talk about whether insurance will pay if you're overweight because I've yet to read about a single case of that happening. Usually accidents are due to other factors. Furthermore if insurance will pay when you have at an at-fault accident and even in a situation where the claimant was egregiously in the wrong, then IMO this is not an issue.

My dilemma is that to comply with the yellow sticker, my family will be less safe.

[greenno]

Sounds like the weight of the world is on your shoulders. Easiest answer is probably not the one you want to hear. Sell the Host and get a lighter rig that will fit the confines of your truck. That being said what would I do? Load it up, drive it and add any mods to the truck you feel you need to be safe. F450 is more truck than you will ever need to haul a bed camper.
One last option is to get a single wheel conversion that raises your weight carrying limits and stings your pocketbook as well. FWIW Most of the Host campers I have seen have been on F350's and F450's and the owners had nothing bad to say. Good luck whichever way you go.

[laj]

What i would do is load it up as. tho you were going camping. Take it to a cat scale, and get it weighed. Forget the yellow sticker as its not a legal weight.

I go by tire, and axle weights. If your inside both of those your good to go.
That is way more than enough p/u.

But thats just me.

[TheLex]

Yeah, it's not something that we have to do. We currently have a Grand Design fifth wheel. But the size (even though it's "only" 34 ft), can be limiting. A smaller truck camper would be very tight for us since we have 3 kids who are are pre-teens.

The single wheel conversion wouldn't do anything as far as increasing the payload as rated by the yellow sticker. I've investigated that option using Stazworks MMRP wheels and MP81 tires. It's a boatload of money at the of the day, cool as it looks. With a beast of a camper on board, I wouldn't be able to venture very far off road anyway. I'm more likely to just swap out the oem Continental HD2 for a set of Toyo M655s which are 3PMSF rated.

The Lance 1172 would fit us, but even that loaded up would put us a bit over the payload sticker. And the fit and finish on the Lance is nowhere near as nice as the Host.

Originally Posted by greenno

Sounds like the weight of the world is on your shoulders. Easiest answer is probably not the one you want to hear. Sell the Host and get a lighter rig that will fit the confines of your truck. That being said what would I do? Load it up, drive it and add any mods to the truck you feel you need to be safe. F450 is more truck than you will ever need to haul a bed camper.
One last option is to get a single wheel conversion that raises your weight carrying limits and stings your pocketbook as well. FWIW Most of the Host campers I have seen have been on F350's and F450's and the owners had nothing bad to say. Good luck whichever way you go.

[TheLex]

Originally Posted by laj

What i would do is load it up as. tho you were going camping. Take it to a cat scale, and get it weighed. Forget the yellow sticker as its not a legal weight.

I go by tire, and axle weights. If your inside both of those your good to go.
That is way more than enough p/u.

But thats just me.

I whole heartedly agree with you about the yellow sticker. However it seems the authorities in British Columbia do give it legal weight. It says as much on their DOT website. It does mention the axle ratings as being important but in the same paragraph, it gives equal weight to the yellow payload sticker. I bring this up since we have family in BC that we visit every summer, and of course, that's the easiest way to get up to Alaska.

I'm not very concerned about the yellow sticker in America because I've not heard of any LEO's that go by that. Instead they rationally go by your rear axle rating and the load limits of your rear tires.

[n0mad]

Your F-450 is plenty of truck for that camper. No need to overthink it - it's artificially limited by the class 3 designation, which has little practical bearing on the physical capabilities of that particular truck. Go by tire and real axle ratings. If you have the Dana M300 axle, that's rated for >13K, so nearly the gross of the truck itself.

[Bedlam]

I carried a 4000 lb camper while towing an 8000 lb trailer on a F250 fitted with 19.5 wheels and extra suspension. Although I did not know about the door sticker enforcement in BC, I did spend a few weeks up there without ever getting a second look by police. My truck was level and stable, so it did not give them a reason to look closer.


If you are concerned about the door sticker, the only option is to go to a Class 5 chassis cab and give up on the extras offered on the smaller Class 3 pickups. The F450 pickup is the most the capable pickup currently available and the rating really is in place to make licensing, registration and insurance easier for the buyer. I suggest skipping the Class 4 chassis cabs because you will be at the upper limits of the GVWR with no better ride or options than getting the Class 5.

[Ssgritton]

So I have a Ram 3500 dullay it does the job, my yellow sticker says 5600 pounds my Host posts my weight as equiped as 4400 lbs. No police problem there, they don't have a scale with them. Next, I would look at the axel MFG weight rating not Ford. I found mine rated at 10,000 LB and Ram rated it at 9k+ I just added things as needed, first was upper and lower stable loads to keep things on the frame and not mini tires like airbages I then added Helwig sway bar, huge diference. If had your 450 I would stay right there!

[imjustdave]

I agree Yellow sticker is worthless info, if it is of that much concern take it off.

Ok lets say yellow sticker says 5,000 lbs ..... Do the police in BC have you empty out your truck contents on a scale and go oooohhhh your 5100 lbs here is your ticket? It's just a guide to tell people you can carry this much junk in your truck...
on the flip side if they go well Host camper weights 5500 lbs and your yellow sticker says 5000 but you put your truck on an epic diet of 600 lbs ... your not over your capability. but they will give you a ticket? Also lets say same sticker of 5,000 and you put a 4000 lb camper on so your good... but then you have a motor bike on the front rack, one on the back rack, 8 extra lead batteries for the roof of solar, and enough canned food in the camper/truck to life 2 months.. Have a good day sir carry on. that yellow sticker makes people forget about the cool lights, winch, mud flaps, tools, friends, dog, stereo system See Vern I can carry 5000 lbs camper manufacture says it weight 4895 lbs I'm good to go.

I suspect they put the entire truck on a scale and go.... oh your weight is 14,543 lbs and your max GVW is .... X Well driver you are over or under. Then comes axle max which they might complain about and for sure tires rating.

Everyone knows Semi trucks don't have yellow stickers... Not even sure my truck is new enough for that stupid sticker.

[imjustdave]

Originally Posted by TheLex

As most folks know, these are really heavy truck campers. As spec'd out, most are about 4700 lbs dry, and by the time you add some water and all the other stuff one typically carries, the weight will likely be near 6000 lbs.

My 2017 F450 has a yellow sticker payload of about 4600 lbs. It came with the factory Reese 27.5k hitch. So let's say the hitch and tailgate (with integrated step) are removed. That's about 250 lbs less. So now I've got about 4850 lbs of payload on paper.

However, the rear axle GWR is 9900 lbs and the tires have a combined 15,800 lbs of capacity in the rear alone.

Your Rear GAWR is only 9900 lbs? That seems WAY low like artificially low especially if your on 19.5 tires.

For comparison I have a 06 Ddoge 3500. 11 years older.
Rear GAWR is 9350 or 550 lbs less then your F450
but my tires are rates at 11,340 but they are 17 inch so to be expected but your tires are good for 4,460 lb more capacity.

Have you actually gone and weighed your truck? What are real world numbers of the truck and then I would work my self backwards from there. What is the GVW of the truck?
What is the GAWR for the front tires?
Consider that very little weight will move to the front axle. I would almost assume zero for easy math in reality it might be 30-200 lbs

[TheLex]

I totally agree with you, but BC actually has on their website that you must stay either below your axle ratings and/or or the yellow payload sticker. It's stupid, but they do enforce the yellow sticker. My rear tire ratings are 15,800 lbs between all of 4 of them. So no way would I be over that. I might end up a bit over the GRAWR of 9900, but FWIW Dana has the M300 rated at almost 15k lbs itself. I know for a fact that the F450 can safely carry the Host Mammoth simply because others are doing it without issue. It's a game of chance basically whether the few times I enter BC, whether I get tagged. If you get busted they make you leave the province.

One thing I might do though, is since I'll likely have a toad, is if this happens, I'll transfer as much over to the toad as possible and then get it weighed.

Originally Posted by imjustdave

I agree Yellow sticker is worthless info, if it is of that much concern take it off.

Ok lets say yellow sticker says 5,000 lbs ..... Do the police in BC have you empty out your truck contents on a scale and go oooohhhh your 5100 lbs here is your ticket? It's just a guide to tell people you can carry this much junk in your truck...
on the flip side if they go well Host camper weights 5500 lbs and your yellow sticker says 5000 but you put your truck on an epic diet of 600 lbs ... your not over your capability. but they will give you a ticket? Also lets say same sticker of 5,000 and you put a 4000 lb camper on so your good... but then you have a motor bike on the front rack, one on the back rack, 8 extra lead batteries for the roof of solar, and enough canned food in the camper/truck to life 2 months.. Have a good day sir carry on. that yellow sticker makes people forget about the cool lights, winch, mud flaps, tools, friends, dog, stereo system See Vern I can carry 5000 lbs camper manufacture says it weight 4895 lbs I'm good to go.

I suspect they put the entire truck on a scale and go.... oh your weight is 14,543 lbs and your max GVW is .... X Well driver you are over or under. Then comes axle max which they might complain about and for sure tires rating.

Everyone knows Semi trucks don't have yellow stickers... Not even sure my truck is new enough for that stupid sticker.

[TheLex]

Yeah unfortunately that's what the white stickers says.....9900 lbs. It IS artificially low - lowered by Ford. Dana rates it another 5k lbs higher. Tires are fine though. They're at 15,800 lbs on the rear. Truck weighs 9350 lbs with the factory oem/Reese hitch. I'll be removing the hitch of course and also the rear tailgate with integrated step. I figure that'll lighten the truck 250-300 lbs.

What's interesting is in California you register the truck at a specific weight. Right now it's rated up to 15k lbs under GVWR category A. I might just bump it up to category B for 15-20k lbs. It's "only" $115/yr extra, and this would make my truck totally legal. I know this can be done because commercial drivers with F450's register their rigs at much higher weights. And AFAIK once I'm legal in one state, it's good for every state. So if I'm good throughout the USA, hopefully BC will have less of an issue.

And before you ask, in California, pickups are considered commercial vehicles and receive commercial license plates and registration. Here's the form:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/d...-reg-4008-pdf/

Originally Posted by imjustdave

Your Rear GAWR is only 9900 lbs? That seems WAY low like artificially low especially if your on 19.5 tires.

For comparison I have a 06 Ddoge 3500. 11 years older.
Rear GAWR is 9350 or 550 lbs less then your F450
but my tires are rates at 11,340 but they are 17 inch so to be expected but your tires are good for 4,460 lb more capacity.

Have you actually gone and weighed your truck? What are real world numbers of the truck and then I would work my self backwards from there. What is the GVW of the truck?
What is the GAWR for the front tires?
Consider that very little weight will move to the front axle. I would almost assume zero for easy math in reality it might be 30-200 lbs

[imjustdave]

Originally Posted by TheLex

Yeah unfortunately that's what the white stickers says.....9900 lbs. It IS artificially low - lowered by Ford. Dana rates it another 5k lbs higher. Tires are fine though. They're at 15,800 lbs on the rear. Truck weighs 9350 lbs with the factory oem/Reese hitch. I'll be removing the hitch of course and also the rear tailgate with integrated step. I figure that'll lighten the truck 250-300 lbs.

What's interesting is in California you register the truck at a specific weight. Right now it's rated up to 15k lbs under GVWR category A. I might just bump it up to category B for 15-20k lbs. It's "only" $115/yr extra, and this would make my truck totally legal. I know this can be done because commercial drivers with F450's register their rigs at much higher weights. And AFAIK once I'm legal in one state, it's good for every state. So if I'm good throughout the USA, hopefully BC will have less of an issue.

And before you ask, in California, pickups are considered commercial vehicles and receive commercial license plates and registration. Here's the form:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/d...-reg-4008-pdf/

That 9350 was you on a scale? or what Ford says it weights on some web page? Real weight is what matters. Also each axle weight is what is really important.

Keep in mind what you register the truck to carry cat B as you called it... is just to cover TAX on the road so if your scaled you don't get a overweight ticket for Tax purposes. But this extra weight registration is to cover your Combined "Combination" weight when you cross a scale .. say you have a trailer and it weights 20k lbs and your truck is 10k for easy math you better have 30k mim for registration otherwise your getting a ticket. registration on a trailer is typically epic cheap because it does NOT cover weight.

But if it's just you and the truck and you scale out at 18k... you still will - can get a ticket because you will be over you axle rating. of 9350. this is where it gets shady as most scales are looking at Semi trucks and hotshot drivers not RV owners.

In WA the lowest you can register is 1.5 times weight listed on title and or certified scale ticket weight of the truck. so that would be 15K registration based on your numbers like you here then you can add I believe in 2k increments as high as your willing to pay. I used to be 26k on my pickup. 110k on the semi.

Now most if not all scales ignore RV owners and most of the time actively shun you away as your not considered commercial. unless your a hot shot hauling RV. But drop the RV and now the view point changes. CA also views pickup beds way different then flat beds or non typical truck beds. not entirely sure which bed you have.

Assume you have pickup bed
https://madocumentupload.marketingas...a9317&v5=False

looking at page 41 and comparing it to the F350 your GVW is the same... front axle rating is higher so... To me they de-rated the truck to stay in class 3 rating more then likely to play unfairly with Dodge and Chevy for bragging right on who can drag the largest trailer. Overly heavy truck in a underclass rating.

They have some good info on classes here on page 18
https://madocumentupload.marketingas...f6eb0&v5=False

your truck really should be in the 15,000 to 16,500 class 4 and 5 range, but I do admit your frame is entirely different. CC and I assume you have truck bed.

At the end of the day I suspect you 450 is plenty of truck others prove this daily but if you get pulled over and they want to put you on a scale your over your de rating rating. assuming the axles. tires brake are identical and the frame isn't some weak part compared to the CC trucks.

FYI they derate some larger trucks to help customers build a truck that can support commercial use but get around commercial CDL drivers lic. I notice they have 10k GVW F350 you could tow a 16k trailer and stay under CDL you can get big box trucks all day long 26k rate non CDL or you can get the same truck at 32-36k which requires a CDL driver.

Basically
you have physically a heavy truck with a derated capacity to meet marketing and legal needs.

My vote enjoy your truck and don't worry about the yellow sticker and leave your hitch on.

[TheLex]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The F450 is a derated class IV truck. Mine scaled at 9350 lbs, so I have about 4650 lbs of payload remaining to remain within the Class III rating. F450s typically have about 500 lb lower payload rating than F350s due to the heavier rear axle components.

So far in my travels across the Western US, British Columbia and Alberta, I've never had to pull into a scale. In fact California scales have big signs out front stating "NO PICKUPS".

I did read one post from a RV forum where the member posted that he got stopped as part of a roadside inspection of all RVs passing through that area. That was somewhere in SoCal. The officer weighed the rear wheels/tires and compared that weight with the tire ratings and rear axle load ratings. He did not use the yellow sticker.

I've been told that BC does use the yellow sticker.

My F450 has a regular pickup bed. It's not a cab and chassis.

The ironic thing is, if I were to move "up" to a F550 cab and chassis, I'd be technically compliant with that yellow sticker, but my family would be less safe because F550 and up trucks do not have side impact airbags nor do they have side curtain airbags. These laws are a weird morass.

I plan on adding some upper Stableloads, and maybe some independently adjustable airbags in the rear. The Stableloads will help with sway and the airbags will help me level the truck if needed. There are folks who run F450s with Mammoths with no mods whatsoever.

Yes I plan on just enjoying it. IMO I will be perfectly safe with this setup - far safer than if I were to put my family in a vehicle with far fewer airbags.

Originally Posted by imjustdave

That 9350 was you on a scale? or what Ford says it weights on some web page? Real weight is what matters. Also each axle weight is what is really important.

Keep in mind what you register the truck to carry cat B as you called it... is just to cover TAX on the road so if your scaled you don't get a overweight ticket for Tax purposes. But this extra weight registration is to cover your Combined "Combination" weight when you cross a scale .. say you have a trailer and it weights 20k lbs and your truck is 10k for easy math you better have 30k mim for registration otherwise your getting a ticket. registration on a trailer is typically epic cheap because it does NOT cover weight.

But if it's just you and the truck and you scale out at 18k... you still will - can get a ticket because you will be over you axle rating. of 9350. this is where it gets shady as most scales are looking at Semi trucks and hotshot drivers not RV owners.

In WA the lowest you can register is 1.5 times weight listed on title and or certified scale ticket weight of the truck. so that would be 15K registration based on your numbers like you here then you can add I believe in 2k increments as high as your willing to pay. I used to be 26k on my pickup. 110k on the semi.

Now most if not all scales ignore RV owners and most of the time actively shun you away as your not considered commercial. unless your a hot shot hauling RV. But drop the RV and now the view point changes. CA also views pickup beds way different then flat beds or non typical truck beds. not entirely sure which bed you have.

Assume you have pickup bed
https://madocumentupload.marketingas...a9317&v5=False

looking at page 41 and comparing it to the F350 your GVW is the same... front axle rating is higher so... To me they de-rated the truck to stay in class 3 rating more then likely to play unfairly with Dodge and Chevy for bragging right on who can drag the largest trailer. Overly heavy truck in a underclass rating.

They have some good info on classes here on page 18
https://madocumentupload.marketingas...f6eb0&v5=False

your truck really should be in the 15,000 to 16,500 class 4 and 5 range, but I do admit your frame is entirely different. CC and I assume you have truck bed.

At the end of the day I suspect you 450 is plenty of truck others prove this daily but if you get pulled over and they want to put you on a scale your over your de rating rating. assuming the axles. tires brake are identical and the frame isn't some weak part compared to the CC trucks.

FYI they derate some larger trucks to help customers build a truck that can support commercial use but get around commercial CDL drivers lic. I notice they have 10k GVW F350 you could tow a 16k trailer and stay under CDL you can get big box trucks all day long 26k rate non CDL or you can get the same truck at 32-36k which requires a CDL driver.

Basically
you have physically a heavy truck with a derated capacity to meet marketing and legal needs.

My vote enjoy your truck and don't worry about the yellow sticker and leave your hitch on.