Community Forums

FatDog · 03-28-2005, 06:35 AM

Well Vaughn,
I'm not positive I understood your post, except I do know I was taken back by the namecalling you used. It IS possible to have these discussions without name calling.
And as far as the intent of your post - I'm not sure if your first paragraph was implying that officers should not be wasting their time on RV stops and your second paragraph was lamenting the fact that we need even more enforcement along this corridor.
But at any rate, I value everyone's opinion and enjoy hearing from a source such as baddwalk, and I am sure everyone here would rather not have the insults.
All opinions are good, lets keep up the politeness please,
Mike

Pace · 03-28-2005, 06:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
No, it's not OK without probable cause unless they're stopping every RV. Of course, probable cause could be something as simple as a burned out tail light or wandering over the white line in your lane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate to see this. People using the wrong legal terms on an issue.

Probable cause if for ARREST, NOT for traffic stops.

To stop you they need:

To see a violation of vehicle and traffic law, have REASONABLE suspicion or stop every RV or a preset number in line.

Drifting over the white line(which MANY RVs do) is an infraction to stop you for. Enforcing every little law is common in areas for drug interdiction. The officers that stopped you were obviously interdiction officers.

I have also been stopped in my RV for doing 65 in a 60 zone. The same scenario was done to me. Put in car, dog runs around RV, DOG HIT on back of RV. Nothing in the RV.

After the search and being let out of the patrol car I critiqued the officers stop. I pointed out several errors he made. He had a real puzzled look on his face, I then informed him I was a highway drug interdiction instructor and we had a good chuckle.

I kept the warning ticket as a keepsake.

03-28-2005, 06:53 PM

....I had a "hit" also my dog indicated that there was a cadaver in the police car......was an interesting afternoon in Ft. Myers that day......geof kaye

FatDog · 03-28-2005, 07:13 PM

new guy Pace,
Welcome to iRV2 !
Interesting stuff AND a good chuckle too.
Like a lot of campfire conversations I guess sometimes we might not use all the correct codes or words here, but it is a good campfire conversation still the same.
Would love to hear more of yours,
You can put your RV info in your signature if you want, it gives people here something to talk about.
See you around
Mike

RustyJC · 03-29-2005, 03:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
No, it's not OK without probable cause unless they're stopping every RV. Of course, probable cause could be something as simple as a burned out tail light or wandering over the white line in your lane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate to see this. People using the wrong legal terms on an issue.

Probable cause if for ARREST, NOT for traffic stops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I humbly ask your forgiveness for my transgression. I'm an engineer, not a law enforcement officer, so my terminology might well be flawed, but in my defense, I believe it conveyed the point satisfactorily.

I'll tell you what - if you don't get too picky on my use of legal terms, I'll overlook your use of the word "force" in a future discussion when you really mean "moment". OK??

Rusty

Pace · 03-29-2005, 07:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
]I humbly ask your forgiveness for my transgression. I'm an engineer, not a law enforcement officer, so my terminology might well be flawed, but in my defense, I believe it conveyed the point satisfactorily.

I'll tell you what - if you don't get too picky on my use of legal terms, I'll overlook your use of the word "force" in a future discussion when you really mean "moment". OK??

Rusty </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need for forgiveness, just be careful when giving legal advise/opinion. People BELIEVE what they read on the internet. When it comes to traffic stops there is so much urban legend floating around. This misinformation causes people to get arrested.

I have arrested MANY people who ABSOLUTELY KNEW they were right, because they heard it here or there. They were POSITIVE what their rights were. They KNEW that I was totally wrong, only to find out from there lawyer, through cell bars, that the information they ABSOLUTELY KNEW was ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Most of the arrests for really stupid things. A simple traffic ticket and sent on their way. BUT, because they KNOW there rights the wander into arrest situations.

Yes, I have been told by motorists that I didn't have PROBABLE CAUSE to stop them. They don't even believe me after I explain their error. But, I'M WRONG because they saw it on the internet. As I put the handcuffs on them, I explain that I now have probable cause to arrest them. Expensive lesson for them.

RustyJC · 03-29-2005, 07:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pace:
No need for forgiveness, just be careful when giving legal advise/opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>OK, you've made your point. I used the wrong legal term, although the principle was valid. Let's drop it.

This being a public forum, engineers are allowed to offer opinions on legal issues just as law enforcement officers are allowed to offer opinions on technical issues. A little tolerance from us "experts" to those who are not members of our particular trade goes a long way.

Rusty

03-29-2005, 07:16 PM

...last time I checked...."Might is always Right!"....Mamma always said "He with the gun is the boss".....'course I was shot by my best friend when I was 18 so now you all know I'm a slow learner with a Ed.E.......geof kaye

ronharp · 04-16-2005, 02:00 PM

Rusty

I'm coming into this a little late, but wanted to say I enjoyed this thread.

I wouldn't worry too much about Pace's comments. He is still law enforcment. If he is like most law enforcment he is/will be a little stiff for the common citizen and probably for a time after he leaves the job. I say this "with love" based upon my own experience and that of my family and friends and certainly am not denigrating him or law officers in any way. I'm sure he meant what he said in and educational way from the way I read his posts. I'll never forget the first time I heard the terminology "reasonable suspicion". I blew my lid as where I came from the word "suspicion" was not in our vocabulary. It took me a while to learn that was "state specific". Some use it and some don't. I believe it is very close to "reasonable cause". I still don't like it because of my own police background where it was verbotten.
Times change. When I wore a badge, if you went out to arrest someone and came back empty handed "you" were in trouble. Most years I worked 8pm to 4am and rarely got off before 7am. My nearest radio contact after 11pm was 50 miles away when I could reach them. I don't know how often that might happen in this day and age. We also had a little paragraph in our "handbook" that basiclly said "If you don't have the best equipment or the regulations are not written to benefit you, just take pride in doing a good job anyway". About 5 years into the job, the whiners began to show up. One of the first things they whined about was wanting night sticks. Then they whined that they were not big enough. You get the idea.
I better back out of here. I'm getting too close to "whining". lol

Ron

FatDog · 04-18-2005, 06:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">About 5 years into the job, the whiners began to show up. One of the first things they whined about was wanting night sticks. Then they whined that they were not big enough. You get the idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think this topic started off as kind of a lighthearted "guess what happened to us" story, but lo and behold a lot of us became aware that we as RV'rs are actually inadvertently intertwined in a real life interdiction effort. It has been interesting.

Ron,
And I don't want to veer from this topic too much, but I kind of laughed when I read your comment above, because that is our same joke around the plant here. I've been in the same spot here for 25 years. When we started out as kids, workers were a bit different. Our joke here amongst the long termers is that as soon as the new guys pass their 90 day probationary period these days they march right into the front office and ask for their own parking space, different flavors in the soda machine, a raise, and a weeks paid vacation. Back then we marched into the same front office and asked if we welcome to stay and what other tasks can I do?

Tom and Patty · 04-18-2005, 06:40 AM

I always have to park in the handicap parking. Are they trying to tell me something? Can I get Diet Coke in the machine instead of Diet Pepsi? I want to take off in our RV. Can I have an advance on my vacation time?

How true! Now about that night stick.

You are right FatDog
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think this topic started off as kind of a lighthearted "guess what happened to us" story, but lo and behold a lot of us became aware that we as RV'rs are actually inadvertently intertwined in a real life interdiction effort. It has been interesting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I don't start another one, I don't park in the handicap spots. I park way out there so I don't get door dings and then......someone parks right next to me!

ronharp · 04-18-2005, 05:37 PM

I hear you about the kids. I raised my son to "work". He started right out of high school working in his grandfather's warehouse. After a number of years they discovered he was better than any salesman they had hired over the years. He ended up saving some of their largest accounts when the salesman screwed them up. When he left the warehouse it took 3 people to replace him and they still pulled him back in there when things got screwed up. lol

Ron

PS: I've known for most of my life that I was born st least 50 years too late. Watching "Little House on the Prairie" just makes my poor ol' heart twitterpate. lol

The Sequel · 04-30-2005, 01:56 AM

I loved the original story although the many different directions this thread went were pretty entertaining too. Here's some irony for you when you think about everyday folks getting stopped to check for drugs.

Years ago a buddy of mine who was an officer in another state, came out to test for my police department. When I picked him up at the airport, we were stopped by guys on my own department (nobody I knew) and checked. He unknowingly fit one of the profiles of a young male from the midwest flying with only a carryon for a one day turnaround flight. We got a good kick out of it.