Reservation games

[neoflyer]

Originally Posted by Ldubs

Booking forward is fine if you are going to use the days. The problem is people who book forward for the Sat/Sun at the end of the 7 day window, or for the last 7 days of a 14 day window, etc, etc.

I have an idea. It wouldn’t solve the problem mentioned above, though. I’ve made this suggestion before. In the really popular parks, John Pennekamp in Florida being a prime example, use a lottery system. Draw entries by computer from a list of those applying for a given day. The winners get a certain time to finalize the reservation. If they don’t the next person drawn gets their shot. Eliminates getting up at midnight for those systems that do that. Eliminates the computer clock differences and internet latency issue. I know it just replaces one form of luck with another but it would be more relaxed.

[neoflyer]

Originally Posted by twinboat

I think it takes 15 days or so before you can cancel days you booked ahead.

They you modifie your stay, if it let's you.

You need to read the rules.

Does the 15 day rule only apply if you make a reservation th first day of the 6 month window? Or would it apply 3 months out, say. The reason I ask is I think the purpose of the rule is to keep someone from making a 14 day reservation that ends the Friday before Memorial Day. Then the next day, when Saturday is the 14th day, modifying the reservation dropping the first day and adding Saturday and so forth until you have the entire holiday booked. Then maybe dropping the first 9 or 10 days.

[Gammel]

Just tried to book a campsite on recreation.gov. Went to log on and was told I am locked out for 30 minutes because of three failed logon attempts! I tried ONCE! Is the IRS running that clown show now?

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Gammel

Just tried to book a campsite on recreation.gov. Went to log on and was told I am locked out for 30 minutes because of three failed logon attempts! I tried ONCE! Is the IRS running that clown show now?

Every few years they get a new site provider and all are real buggy. Once they get a handle on it we have another election.

[Indianscoop]

Originally Posted by neoflyer

I have an idea. It wouldn’t solve the problem mentioned above, though. I’ve made this suggestion before. In the really popular parks, John Pennekamp in Florida being a prime example, use a lottery system. Draw entries by computer from a list of those applying for a given day. The winners get a certain time to finalize the reservation. If they don’t the next person drawn gets their shot. Eliminates getting up at midnight for those systems that do that. Eliminates the computer clock differences and internet latency issue. I know it just replaces one form of luck with another but it would be more relaxed.

Yosemite may try this in one of our campgrounds next year.

[Ldubs]

Originally Posted by neoflyer

I have an idea. It wouldn’t solve the problem mentioned above, though. I’ve made this suggestion before. In the really popular parks, John Pennekamp in Florida being a prime example, use a lottery system. Draw entries by computer from a list of those applying for a given day. The winners get a certain time to finalize the reservation. If they don’t the next person drawn gets their shot. Eliminates getting up at midnight for those systems that do that. Eliminates the computer clock differences and internet latency issue. I know it just replaces one form of luck with another but it would be more relaxed.

Originally Posted by Indianscoop

Yosemite may try this in one of our campgrounds next year.

How does this work when the lottery winner of those 7 or 10 days on the calendar has no intention of using all of those days? Seems this does not address the issue.

[Backcountry1]

I don’t see a practical solution that reservation systems, campgrounds, campground hosts, and the government will do to A: Discourage or eliminate the practice of gaming the reservation system, and B; overhauling, tweaking, or completely changing the reservation system when it comes to making reservations. (I.E., Lottery)

But I also believe that something needs to be done to make availability in the campgrounds more open and more fair for everyone. As it stands now it mostly favors people with time (retirees, full timers, or people with maximum flexibility), people who have money (people who can make whatever and however many reservations they want, and aren’t worried about paying cancellation or no show fees), and people who know how to and are willing to game the system.

Some possible solutions to make it more open and fair would be:

Shortening the max stay at popular areas would be a start; instead of 14 days it should be 7 days. (Right away just theoretically doubled the availability for the season)

Changing and/or staggering the release date (when you can start reserving) of sites. Instead of opening the entire campground at 6 months (or a year), open up 75% (the most desired and camped at spots) and hold 25% to start reserving at 3 months away.

Or, have 75% of the campground reservable, and 25% as FCFS.

Charging more for modifying a reservation (or even not allowing modifications and making the reservation need to cancel and rebook), and/or charging more for cancellations.

[Indianscoop]

Originally Posted by Ldubs

How does this work when the lottery winner of those 7 or 10 days on the calendar has no intention of using all of those days? Seems this does not address the issue.

We wonder the same thing!

[Ldubs]

Originally Posted by Backcountry1

I don’t see a practical solution that reservation systems, campgrounds, campground hosts, and the government will do to A: Discourage or eliminate the practice of gaming the reservation system, and B; overhauling, tweaking, or completely changing the reservation system when it comes to making reservations. (I.E., Lottery)

But I also believe that something needs to be done to make availability in the campgrounds more open and more fair for everyone. As it stands now it mostly favors people with time (retirees, full timers, or people with maximum flexibility), people who have money (people who can make whatever and however many reservations they want, and aren’t worried about paying cancellation or no show fees), and people who know how to and are willing to game the system.

Some possible solutions to make it more open and fair would be:

Shortening the max stay at popular areas would be a start; instead of 14 days it should be 7 days. (Right away just theoretically doubled the availability for the season)

Changing and/or staggering the release date (when you can start reserving) of sites. Instead of opening the entire campground at 6 months (or a year), open up 75% (the most desired and camped at spots) and hold 25% to start reserving at 3 months away.

Or, have 75% of the campground reservable, and 25% as FCFS.

Charging more for modifying a reservation (or even not allowing modifications and making the reservation need to cancel and rebook), and/or charging more for cancellations.

I think a practical solution is related to your last paragraph. Financial incentives (in this case penalties) work.

[WillT]

Originally Posted by Backcountry1

Or, have 75% of the campground reservable, and 25% as FCFS.

Some seem to be moving away from this for some reason. Oregon State Parks used to have quite a bit of FCFS. There were even a few campgrounds we used where it was all FCFS. Now they have gone to all reserved spaces. One State CG we go to a couple of times a year was all FCFS until this past year. Now there are no walkups, all reservations only.

We have been to a few Forest Service and State campgrounds this year where they were "full" and turning people away. However up to 20% or more of the sites were unused and all had reserved tags with the peoples last name on them. Some of those site reservations were for over a week and stayed empty the whole time we were there. I talked to the hosts and they all said the same thing. "There is nothing they can do as the sites show as reserved and if the people show up 1/2 way through, the site has to be available for them as they have paid for it." We were told this even at campgrounds that had policy posted that said sites must be occupied the first night or the reservation would be forfeited. The hosts all told us that even though that was the posted policy, they could not enforce it and had to turn people away who came in late hoping to find an unoccupied site. One host told us this was the reason Oregon State Parks went to an all reservation system, to make it easier to turn people away when there appeared to be available sites and avoid conflict.

At one campground this summer, someone came in and just took a site that was still empty 1/2 way through the reservation, but had a reserved tag on it. The host came by and said they could not take the site as it was reserved. The people said it was obvious the reservation was not being used and they were going to pay for it . They refused to move and the host just went on their way.

[Donskiman]

Well, based on the overwhelming negative opinions about playing the reservation game, we decided to try to just reserve the normal way. The result - we were completely shut out. Multiple sites would have been available if we had played the game. Every site was already booked by not doing so. Every site was booked forward, leaving zero sites available.
BTW, this campground only has electric and water, no sewer and no dump station. Apparently all these people booking forward for 2 weeks have no problem breaking camp several times to drive to a dump station many miles away.
We'll have to try to find somewhere else to go now.

[twinboat]

Stayed 1 night 12/28, in a FL. State CG.

Booked it from a email they sent, as I was on a wait list.

Arrived to find 20 empty sites that afternoon and 15 the next morning.

Check web site and all sites were unavailable!!

The system needs fixing.

[ernest917]

FWI: I’ve now firmed up reservations beginning 5/3/21 thru 7/2/21....

They range from private CG’s from TX to WY... Once we arrive in WY our reservations are as follows: Jackson Hole - Gros Ventre NPCG - 8 nites; Colter Bay CG’s in Tetons NP - 10 nites; Headwaters/Flagg Ranch CG - 1.5 south of Yellowstone South Gate - 4 nites; then over to the city of West Yellowstone where we move into ID and stay in 2 different NFCG’s for a total of 18 days...

We then head west through ID into OR staying mostly in SP/NFCG’s....

We even have 8 nites near Crater Lake reserved....

Honestly, I didn’t have an extremely difficult time making these reservations - sure I occasionally had to select other CG’s because the one I initially wanted didn’t have the number of nites I wanted, but I was always able to find some other spot..

Oh - did I mention that EVERY SINGLE SITE I’ve reserved has electricity!!!! Some even have water ....

90% of them are in CG’s that allow me to use my Senior Pass which gets me a 50% discount on site costs....

All I’m doing is waiting until I fall within the “6 month window” and then I start searching... I already have CG’s selected for July but I can’t reserve until January....

I haven’t abused the reservation system and I’ve worked within the required parameters.....

[ernest917]

Oh - I failed to mention that we are staying at one of our all-time favorite CG’s in Lakeview, OR - Junipers Reservoir RV Resort.....

It’s a CG on an actual working 5,000 ranch with view to die for!!!!