Reservation games

[Donskiman]

We are wanting to reserve a space in a recreation.gov campground. Spaces can only be reserved for 14 days. Spaces are limited. The window for reservations is 6 months ahead. They allow booking forward starting from the time first day a space is open. Which potentially means if we want a spot we would have to book it 2 weeks ahead of when we intended to use it. Then try to cancel the days we don't want.

Booking for next year at this campground just opened today. We are already seeing sites get reserved for the full 2 weeks.

Seems like reserving weeks ahead to get a spot and partially canceling is a bit unethical, but it looks like this is the way the game is being played.

What happens if you they don't allow cancelations and you don't show up until the days you really wanted? Since you've already paid for the site it doesn't seem like they could rent it out to someone else.

What have people experienced with this?

[TXiceman]

We have pretty much given up using COE and State Parks. Too hard to get decent reservations anymore.

Ken

[Ldubs]

Originally Posted by Donskiman

We are wanting to reserve a space in a recreation.gov campground. Spaces can only be reserved for 14 days. Spaces are limited. The window for reservations is 6 months ahead. They allow booking forward starting from the time first day a space is open. Which potentially means if we want a spot we would have to book it 2 weeks ahead of when we intended to use it. Then try to cancel the days we don't want.

Booking for next year at this campground just opened today. We are already seeing sites get reserved for the full 2 weeks.

Seems like reserving weeks ahead to get a spot and partially canceling is a bit unethical, but it looks like this is the way the game is being played.

What happens if you they don't allow cancelations and you don't show up until the days you really wanted? Since you've already paid for the site it doesn't seem like they could rent it out to someone else.

What have people experienced with this?

My State's rule for no shows is that the site will be released at noon the following day. The first night's fee will not be refunded. However, if the reservation is modified to change the dates then a whopping $7.99 charge is made and refunds apply for the dates not used.

I agree this is an issue that negatively impacts honest campers. It is common to see all kinds of open sites at fully booked campgrounds. Every time I see this I think a family is missing out on a camping experience because of selfish people.

[Donskiman]

Originally Posted by Ldubs

My State's rule for no shows is that the site will be released at noon the following day. The first night's fee will not be refunded. However, if the reservation is modified to change the dates then a whopping $7.99 charge is made and refunds apply for the dates not used.

I agree this is an issue that negatively impacts honest campers. It is common to see all kinds of open sites at fully booked campgrounds. Every time I see this I think a family is missing out on a camping experience because of selfish people.

Not so sure people are being selfish. The systems have been created in such a way that it may require doing things like this. If we go this route, we would try to modify the dates as far in advance as possible so the dates we didn't want could be reserved by others.

We've been to campgrounds where people have parked their units days ahead of when they're actually going to use the site. Even when the campground had rules saying all sites had to be occupied by people, it wasn't enforced.

[creativepart]

There are some campgrounds where this happens all the time, like at the Grand Canyon, the Florida Keys state parks, etc. But mostly, if you want a specific three days or whatever you can wait until 6-months to the day for reservations to open for those days.

A great many people don't know the "game" so it's only the super popular spots that require borderline antics to succeed in getting a spot.

Some places are so inexpensive per night, especially with a Senior Pass, that some don't even care if they will get a refund for cancellations.

Oh, here's another game we learned on recreation.gov and other affiliated reservation sites. They treat each email address as a different person. So, you can book 14-days on one email address, then create a new account with a new email address and add another 14-days. Each account can have the same info and even the same credit card paying for the reservation. It's only the email address that they recognize. We once stayed 45-days in a 14-day stay NFS campground this way. The camp hosts didn't care while we were there. They basically paid no attention to it.

[Donskiman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

There are some campgrounds where this happens all the time, like at the Grand Canyon, the Florida Keys state parks, etc. But mostly, if you want a specific three days or whatever you can wait until 6-months to the day for reservations to open for those days.

Unfortunately when we've done this in the past the sites were all already reserved. The problem at this particular campground is there is only about a dozen sites where we would fit. We've been in the campground to scout the sites.

This "cheating" the system could be ended by not allowing modifications and having your reservations canceled with no refund if you don't show up. The way it's setup it encourages this unethical behavior.

[twinboat]

I don't get what your saying about booking ahead and then canceling. I think your misunderstanding the rules.

I booked a site at a COE park starting the day I wanted it, 6 months before that day.

As long as THAT day is in the 6 month window, I can then book 13 days beyond that day.

It's the same with Florida sites except its a 11 month window.
You want 12/15/22, you try to book on 1/15/22.

[Donskiman]

Originally Posted by twinboat

I don't get what your saying about booking ahead and then canceling. I think your misunderstanding the rules.

I booked a site at a COE park starting the day I wanted it, 6 months before that day.

As long as THAT day is in the 6 month window, I can then book 13 days beyond that day.

It's the same with Florida sites except its a 11 month window.
You want 12/15/22, you try to book on 1/15/22.

What I'm saying is I wanted dates within that 13 days beyond the first date I can book, but I don't really want the first days. So I would book to get the later dates secured, then cancel/modify to remove the first days. That's the game people seem to be playing.

Of course this could be ended if they said use it all or lose it all, no modifications allowed and if you don't show up all the other days are released, with your reservations being terminated and no refund.

[Ldubs]

Originally Posted by creativepart

There are some campgrounds where this happens all the time, like at the Grand Canyon, the Florida Keys state parks, etc. But mostly, if you want a specific three days or whatever you can wait until 6-months to the day for reservations to open for those days.

But that is a problem. Our State Park system allows booking starting on that "six months to the day" plus however many total days are allowed for a single stay. So, let's say 6 months out is May 20. The sites will be booked May 20 + 10 days (or whatever the max is). Then, it may be possible to extended with a fee of a few dollars.

People don't have exact dates so they hog everything they can without intending to use it all. That is one of the reasons so many empty sites exist in fully booked campgrounds.

[Ldubs]

Originally Posted by Donskiman

Not so sure people are being selfish. The systems have been created in such a way that it may require doing things like this. If we go this route, we would try to modify the dates as far in advance as possible so the dates we didn't want could be reserved by others.

We've been to campgrounds where people have parked their units days ahead of when they're actually going to use the site. Even when the campground had rules saying all sites had to be occupied by people, it wasn't enforced.

People are reserving dates they have no intention of using or just to have it in their hip pocket in case they might use it. I don't know if selfish is the wrong description. What I do know is every time it happens some other camper is shut out of planning an outing. It is a very flawed system.

Always told my kids "everyone does it" is not a valid excuse to not do the right thing.

[Donskiman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Oh, here's another game we learned on recreation.gov and other affiliated reservation sites. They treat each email address as a different person. So, you can book 14-days on one email address, then create a new account with a new email address and add another 14-days. Each account can have the same info and even the same credit card paying for the reservation. It's only the email address that they recognize. We once stayed 45-days in a 14-day stay NFS campground this way. The camp hosts didn't care while we were there. They basically paid no attention to it.

So theoretically it's possible that someone who really wanted a specific site could essentially lock that site in a month or more in advance, then cancel all the early days.

These games could be ended by a use it all or lose it all policy that doesn't allow modifications and terminates your reservations with no refund for not showing up within the first 24 hours of your first date.

[Ldubs]

Originally Posted by Donskiman

Of course this could be ended if they said use it all or lose it all, no modifications allowed and if you don't show up all the other days are released, with your reservations being terminated and no refund.

I agree. This would be harsh on people who encounter real emergencies that cause a trip to be cancelled. Sadly, gaming the rules may eventually result in this kind of change.

[Donskiman]

Originally Posted by Ldubs

I agree. This would be harsh on people who encounter real emergencies that cause a trip to be cancelled. Sadly, gaming the rules may eventually result in this kind of change.

No, what I'm saying is if you cancel it all you still get a refund. No refund for canceling just a few days or not showing up within 24 hours of the first date reserved. However, it could still be a problem for people who have a travel issue in route to the campground that could delay them a couple days. Is that a more common problem than people gaming the system? People who reserve two weeks, then cancel the first week seems like more of an issue than people who have to leave early.

[Tomahawk]

Originally Posted by Donskiman

We are wanting to reserve a space in a recreation.gov campground. Spaces can only be reserved for 14 days. Spaces are limited. The window for reservations is 6 months ahead. They allow booking forward starting from the time first day a space is open. Which potentially means if we want a spot we would have to book it 2 weeks ahead of when we intended to use it. Then try to cancel the days we don't want.

Booking for next year at this campground just opened today. We are already seeing sites get reserved for the full 2 weeks.

Seems like reserving weeks ahead to get a spot and partially canceling is a bit unethical, but it looks like this is the way the game is being played.

What happens if you they don't allow cancelations and you don't show up until the days you really wanted? Since you've already paid for the site it doesn't seem like they could rent it out to someone else.

What have people experienced with this?

I stay almost exclusively in NF and NP. Unfortunately, that is how the reservation system works. The alternative would be worse, if you had to wait until all the days you wanted were in the window. I think the best thing you can do, is work within the rules. As you said free up the days you don't want as soon as possible to allow others those days.

I haven't checked the no show rules since covid hit but it used to be you had 24 hours to show up and then your reservation was canceled and the site became first come first served. You would be out your entire fee. If you canceled 24 hours in advance the fee was $10, if you canceled within 24 hours you lost one night plus the $10.

Just to be clear on the terminology, if you play the game, later you will want to "modify" your reservation not "cancel" anything. The $10 change fee will apply when you modify the days.

I have been to a few places, like JTNP, where they actually checked my ID to make sure it matched the reservation name and they say to bring a copy of the reservation confirmation. I don't recall them checking that but I always bring it just in case, especially if there is no Cell Signal where I am going

Final thought. Playing game becomes really important if there are only few spots in the campground that you will fit into. There have been times where I make reservation on Tuesday for a marginal spot and then make a reservation on Wednesday for the spot I really want. I immediately drop the other spot. I have been burned enough times where I end up with no spot to know a bird in the hand... As mentioned above this is really only necessary for certain popular campgrounds and certain spots within campgrounds.