RV Parking "Lot?" Need advice here!

[dumbneasy]

I apologize in advance! I'm a pretty verbose guy. Years ago, I started watching a TV show on Discovery called The Treehouse Master. I love that show! And I love treehouses!
Well, I live in the town of Lincoln, MT. You've heard of the Una Bomber - right? Well this is the place!
Lincoln lays half way between Missoula and Great Falls right on the MT Hwy 200. That's 170 miles city to city with Lincoln being the largest town (about 1000 people) in between.
So anyway, here in downtown Lincoln there is one of the most beautiful tree'd lots I have ever seen. It 400' X 200', runs an entire block long, sits in the middle of everything our 10 block town has to offer.... and is tree'd like you could only imagine. It was also for sale!
I would have killed for this lot (figuratively ), but at $250,000 it was way out of my price range, being on fixed income with social security and VA compensation as my only income. But what a place for tree houses!
Anyway, After about three years on the market at $250,000 the price was lowered to $180,000 and rumor had it that the sellers turned down $150,000. And then last year, they "REALLY" lowered the price. So much, in fact, that I was able to put a new first mortgage on my home and buy it.
Now what? Well, I had little money for tree houses, but I came up with another idea. What about a parking lot for RV's?
We have RV spaces (state park - water, or water and electricity) east of town about 1/2 mile; and we have a small full-on RV park west of town about 1/2 mile. BUT! We had nothing right in town! And if you've never heard of Lincoln, let me give you one of our famous slogans, which is, "LINCOLN, OH LINCOLN - A FINE PLACE FOR DRINKIN!"
True be told, a 1/2 mile is not much of a hike to get to town from these two just-out-of-town and legitimate RV parks. However! When folks get to Lincoln and walk to town knowing they won't be driving for the rest of the night, they have this habit of sipping (or gulping) way more than one might call.... responsible drinking. And you know what? it's a hell of a long walk back to your RV when you can neither walk nor see straight! LOL!
Finally I had possession of these 2 lots! The first thing I did was plan for RV pads. First, I needed a road that went all the way through my now - PARK(!) so that people wouldn't have to come in and out on the main highway. Plus, RVers would need maneuverability within the park to get in and out of their spaces. The other reason for the road through is because right across the street from my park was our local Handi-Mart, complete with gas/diesel station, convenience store, sandwich shop, bar, along with a sewer dump for RV's ($5), free water, and PROpane!
Twelve inches of road mix went down to cover a 16' wide by 400' road through the park from street to street. I also put in a wide connection to the Hwy 200 via a round-about on the property with a beautiful old pine tree in the middle of the circle so that there are actually three entry/exits to the park.
Then I started in on RV spaces. I got a total of 12 in using slightly more than half the property before I ran out of money. They are also 12" of road mix thick, 14' wide with the smallest being 47' long and the largest being 72' long. The rest are high 50's through 60's, knowing that some RV's are fifth wheels with big trucks in front!
And, I'm out of money. With a mortgage of $1000 a month, I cannot... will not borrow any more to complete the project, I just cannot risk it at age 70 with advanced Agent Orange presumed prostate cancer, some credit card debt, and other monthly expenses. So I'm stuck!
I could move my RV over to the park when the snow thaws, and as long as I stay residential, I can put in my own electrical, water, and lighting. (Did I tell you I bought a bucket truck for lighting? LOL!) And some of the best news I got was that there was a septic tank on the property. Not for 12 spaces but certainly for an owner occupied RV or office/living space cabin.
So now come the questions!!!
1. Would fully self-contained RV's want to park at a place like mine where the have no services. No water, no electricity, no sewer dump... keeping in mind that all of those services plus propane fill-ups are available right across the street? (And, there WOULD BE wireless Internet services! High speed and fiber optics too! LOL!)
2. And, if there are RV'ers who would use such a facility, what would be a reasonable rate to charge per night? I'd guess we'd be talking fully self-contained vehicles ONLY.
3. Has anyone heard of companies that would come in on a partnership basis to complete facilities cost for a percentage of profits?
4. Last one! And it's not so much a question, as it is a plea for advice! Boy can I use that! I'd love to heard your thoughts!

I thank you!

[R.Wold]

Build it and they will come....

I traversed Montana last summer on Hwy 2 and stayed in city parks in some of the small towns like Malta and Shelby (on July 4) and enjoyed being able to walk around town at my leisure.

1. Yes I would absolutely use it without hook ups. I often stay in parks with full hook ups for several days and never connect. 2. As far as rates, I would say if it’s a nice attractive location, you could reasonably as $25/night. 3. I would be very reluctant to take on partners unless they were very good friends or family, and then there’s the issue with doing business with friends and family. 4. And if you added utilities for just two sites and rented them long term for $500/mo you’re already breaking even on the nut.

Between 6th and 7th on the South side of 200? I think this is a wonderful idea, enjoyed reading about it, and I’m happy for you. Best of luck with this dream-come-true endeavor! How bout a couple pics?

PS: the town of Colfax Ca has a similar motto: “A small drinking town with a railroad problem”.

[Sky1926]

Checkout Harvest Hosts...might be something you could try. Kind of like an Air-B-n-B for RVs. People book through the app/website to stay on your property.

https://harvesthosts.com

Boondockers Welcome is another but it’s not a “paid” overnight stay I don’t believe

Plenty of options for finding ways to rent out spaces on your property without having a partner.

[Finance]

We would certainly stay, so long as the place is clean. Probably you can position the pricing similar to the sites offered for tents at competing properties, if you have nice pads.

[twogypsies]

What do the local national forest sites go for - without hookups or a dump station or water fill?

Personally, I'd much rather stay in a forest campground rather than a RV park.

What do your sites look like? Post a picture.

[Alpine36]

I would stay, but it would likely just be for a day or two.
Add 30a power, basic cable and a water spigot somewhere and that's a game changer for a lot of folks, myself included.
The problem with no power is generators running continually.
The cost of running power to each slip would be offset by the extra you can charge for each camp site. Can you post pictures and add contact information? We love Montana, and Drinkin in Lincoln sounds great.

[twinboat]

Do you have any zoning laws in that village, town, county, state ?

Can you just build a RV park ?

[Kiss4aFrog]

Along the same line of thinking you want to make sure you can do your own work on the property that's going to be used commercially. It's one thing to be adding a ceiling fan or running a circuit out to your garage for light or heat residentially and quite another wiring a commercial property. Moving your trailer over and living on the property might not be enough to allow you to do construction on what will end up being commercial. I'm just saying these are questions to ask before you get into it and not find out when someone comes to inspect or heaven forbid someone gets hurt and there is some sort of investigation.
I know the town is really small but whatever you do make sure you have the proper permits so you don't run afoul of any local requirements. Bad enough if they make you pull out an improvement, worse if they fine you and nightmare if they condemn. Seen it done. Guy lost his bar because he tried to sneak on a small addition out back.
Have a really good insurance policy in place before any RVer sets foot on your property.
I pulled it up, nice looking lot, easy access. I think you have a good idea.

[George Schweikle]

Assuming you are able to continue with your efforts, you need to get the facility on the various RV sites like Allstays and RVparky. I'm just one person but, assuming I can find it, will go somewhat out of my way to stay in a town where we can walk to restaurants, etc.

[TXTiger]

You have no amenities, no electric, no water, no sewer etc, just a parking lot in the trees in the middle of nowhere. I can go to a State park for $5 to $16 dollars. I can stay at a rest area for free. You need a reason for people to go there besides drinking in a small town nearby. Maybe hunting or fishing guided trips!

[Ron750]

I would check local laws carefully before you end up wasting a lot of money. Good luck.

[Isaac-1]

Given the access to water and dump station across the street, I think this might have an appeal, though lack of electricity an a lot with trees may greatly limit your number of clients, since solar panels don't like being in the shade.


Down to the bottom line, sure I would consider staying there is passing through or exploring the surrounding area, as I can easily go 6-7 days between dumping and refilling tanks, and have 400 watts of solar panels on the roof. That is if the price is right, which to me, not knowing the local market, would probably be under $20 per night, though $20 is probably pushing it. $10 I would consider a bargain, and $15 I would probably consider fair without thinking too much about it. The key here is I would have to know about it, preferably in advance, which means being listed in online databases, maybe participating in discount programs like passport america, ...




p.s. a big upsell feature to me would be electricity, even if it is only 20 amps, that is enough to keep the batteries charged, run a TV, notebook computer, etc. and maybe even let me zap something in the microwave.

[twogypsies]

What state park is 1/2 mi away? I don't find one online.

There's a city park right in town that's very cheap (one review stated they didn't charge anything)

If the gas station across the street from you has a dump station that charges $5 you're going to have to keep your fee for offering nothing under $10.

Good luck!

[dumbneasy]

First off, let me thank all of you for posting replies! They have been very helpful. Now to your thoughts and questions.
1. Pictures! I have pictures, but I haven't figured out how to get them posted as this site keeps asking for a URL and I don't have them posted anywhere online. Maybe I will set them up through my FaceBook page under photos and you can go there.
2. There are no building permits required for "RESIDENTIAL" building in Lincoln except for electrical meter/main and septic. I am also a former electrical contractor, have a backhoe, and will be putting in a well. So first, I will be setting up the lot as a residence so that I won't need any permits except for the main electrical panel. THEN, after all of that is in, I'll flip to commercial get whatever needs inspecting inspected and OPEN, OPEN, OPEN!
3. Water. I will be putting in a well with filtration for the residence. However, if I put in a well and want to use it for commercial purposes, Montana has stringent regulations for everything! Water treatment and special filters have to be used along with monthly testing. So that is out! But I could run some freeze spigots and mark then Non-Potable for Fire Only - Use at your own risk? But the easiest thing to do is for whomever needs it to go across the street, fuel up, propane up, fill your water tanks for FREE, and dump your sewer. You should be good for days!
My other thought is, if I have no services but "just" a parking lot... how commercial would I be? LOL!
4. TV. Our cable TV company shut down on Dec. 31. I guess they figure that since the whole town is now fiber optics and download speeds are so fast, that anyone who wants to watch TV can do it through the Internet service they now also provide. At any rate, the residence will have a 100MB download speed with wireless routers around the park. HD download speeds require 4MB per second. I only have 12 spaces, so I think I'm good there.
5. Don't remember who said it, but I'm not out in the middle on nowhere! Within one block of my lot are, 5 bars, 4 restaurants (One a fine steakhouse!), a coffee hut right across the street, the Hardware store, real estate office, flower shop, newspaper, bank, state run liquor store, two places with great pizzas, a sandwich shop, convenience store, grocery store, and the fuel/propane/sewer dump place, also right across the street.
6. Price. The state park (HOOPER PARK) charges $10 for a water hookup space and $20 for a space that also includes electricity (15 AMP). The RV park at the other end of town (Missoula side) has full hookups and a laundromat. They are $40 per night, I believe. But spaces there are limited because there are several full-timers there. That's because there are virtually no long term housing or rentals in town.
My mortgage payment, insurance, and taxes run about $1200 a month. So ideally, if I charge $10 a night, I'd only be looking at needing 4 coaches per night to break even and I have 12 spaces.
7. Nobody asked, but Lincoln is located about 4 hrs from Glacier National Park, and 3-3 1/2 hrs from Yellowstone. And so I'm thinking, as long as the coach pays in advance they can come and go as they please. I mean, I love day trips, too!

NOW! A question for you! What is an ideal check out time? A check in time doesn't really matter if there is space available, but check out time, I'm thinking, is pretty important! Who knows? I might even have a reservation coming in! LOL!

Keep 'em coming..... and I thank you all wholeheartedly!

Originally Posted by R.Wold

Build it and they will come....

I traversed Montana last summer on Hwy 2 and stayed in city parks in some of the small towns like Malta and Shelby (on July 4) and enjoyed being able to walk around town at my leisure.

1. Yes I would absolutely use it without hook ups. I often stay in parks with full hook ups for several days and never connect. 2. As far as rates, I would say if it’s a nice attractive location, you could reasonably as $25/night. 3. I would be very reluctant to take on partners unless they were very good friends or family, and then there’s the issue with doing business with friends and family. 4. And if you added utilities for just two sites and rented them long term for $500/mo you’re already breaking even on the nut.

Between 6th and 7th on the South side of 200? I think this is a wonderful idea, enjoyed reading about it, and I’m happy for you. Best of luck with this dream-come-true endeavor! How bout a couple pics?

PS: the town of Colfax Ca has a similar motto: “A small drinking town with a railroad problem”.