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Old 08-14-2024, 01:46 PM   #1
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2 30amp pedestals connected to a 50amp 5th Wheel

I have a DRV 5th wheel, 50-amp connected to two 30-amp pedestals at a long-term campground. While changing my black tank, I was replacing the underbelly, and I touched one of the screw holes to remove some dirt and I "felt" a slight tingle. It was damp that day and I was laying on the ground. I pulled out the 12-1000V meter and it showed that the frame was in fact energized. The voltmeter showed 8.5 Volts (I grounded the black line to the ground). I turned off one of the pedestals and the 8.5 volts went away. I switched the power cord from the energized pedestal to the other surge protector (that was just turned off). There is no hot skin. I plugged the original cord into the other surge protector, and the hot skin returned. I'm thinking I have either an open ground in the first power cord, or I'm out of phase between the two pedestals. It's only fair to mention that the RV is located relatively close to some high-power lines. If I stand at the rear of the RV and hold up the 12-1000V meter, it goes off. Thoughts?
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Old 08-14-2024, 02:17 PM   #2
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One of those pedestals most likely has a bootleg ground causing a "hot skin" condition you described.

No EMS or surge protector or other device will alert you to that. Only 3 ways to find out: 1) the hard way like you did - get a shock (good thing it was only mild - people die that way); 2) measure with a volt meter - like you did; 3) test your camper's frame/skin each time you hook up with a non-contact voltage tester.

Lots of places to read on line about the causes of bootleg grounds and hot skins. Probably some threads here too.

I couldn't quite follow you trouble shooting method as it seemed power pedestal and surge protector where interchanged. Does the problem follow the power pedestal or the cord you are using? I doubt the cord is the issue because I think a surge protector might recognize that.

and - are you really running from 2 different shore powers pedestals to get power into your RV? How does that work?

btw - welcome to the forum.....
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Old 08-14-2024, 02:19 PM   #3
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Floating voltage on vehicle frame.

As a starter co-mingling multiple power sources violates a number of NEC code issues and as you are finding out can be hazardous. The stray voltage is due to a number of issues beginning with a bad ground path from the vehicle wiring and frame, all the way back to the campground main service feeder and a cross connected neutral. In addition, if the two-30-amp hot feeds are from the same phase, you could then be overloading the neutral conductors in your system and the power cord. This is all designed for a 50-amp max load. Loads on both sides of the proper 50 Amp feed will reduce cancel out the neutral current. Feeding two 30-amp lines from the same phase becomes a 60 Amp load.

I would begin by looking in your coach for the cross connection between the ground and neutral. Begin with the breaker panel and if you have a transfer switch or inverter. These connect the ground and neutral only when the generator or inverter is the power source. The Ground and neutral only get tied together at a power source and that is only at the main panel. All sub panels including campground power pedestals need them isolated.

In the event that someone got hurt there could be plenty of blame to go around. Why you need liability insurance. Grabbing the metal door handle with bare wet feet could make for a really bad day.
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Old 08-14-2024, 02:40 PM   #4
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Thank you for your replies, very much appreciated.

I should have mentioned that if connected to a single 50amp source, the hot skin issue does not exist. That is what is leading me to a pedestal issue. Power is supplied by double input (30amp) to a single output 50amp to the RV. Basically, when I remove a specific power cord from the pedestal, the hot skin goes away.
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Old 08-14-2024, 02:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGreenwood View Post
Thank you for your replies, very much appreciated.

I should have mentioned that if connected to a single 50amp source, the hot skin issue does not exist. That is what is leading me to a pedestal issue. Power is supplied by double input (30amp) to a single output 50amp to the RV. Basically, when I remove a specific power cord from the pedestal, the hot skin goes away.
So you are using 2 30amp outlets in a single power box on a shore power pedestal? And when you do you get the hot skin?

Remove one at a time and test for hot skin. Don't use the receptacle that causes the hot skin - it is wired wrong.
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Old 08-14-2024, 03:00 PM   #6
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Using 2 pedestals. Each one has a 30amp receptacle. Campground only supplies 30amp per site. Had to get 2 sites in order to supply the 50amps (yes, I know 60).
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Old 08-14-2024, 03:19 PM   #7
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If your volt meter also does ohms, you can ohm out the two power cords and see if there is an open or shorted ground and/or neutral.

I also have a hard time following your trouble shooting but I think you are telling us is if you only use one power cord to either pedestal you get the hot skin. Or is it only when plugged into one of the pedestals'?
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Old 08-14-2024, 03:52 PM   #8
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My interpretation: He's connected to two separate 30 amp camp pedestals. When he does this the frame of his DRV is hot. When he disconnects one of the pedestals the frame is not hot.
The key to this is how are the two separate 30 amp pedestal inputs connected?

And is one pedestal connected to leg A and the other to leg B?

A side note is a 50amp RV connection provides 100 amps of power, 50 on each leg.
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Old 08-14-2024, 04:09 PM   #9
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Yes, 60 amps is part of the problem. But the main issue is likely no phased/split service. A normal 50-amp service with two legs will be phased [180 degrees out]-- result is little or no return volts on the return neutral wire. Your rig is not wired for 60 amps returning on the neutral. Accordingly, neutral could be compromised somewhere in the rig, allowing leakage to the frame.
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Old 08-14-2024, 04:09 PM   #10
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Connecting the 2 30 amp circuits

How are you connecting the 2 feeds? Did you get an adapter, or did you make something yourself?

Something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09968BPYL...roduct_details

This works when the pedestal has 2, 30 amp receptacles with each fed from a different phase, and using the same neutral and ground. Connecting to a different pedestal can have different grounding and neutral paths and this could be your problem. You should use a meter and confirm that each of the "hot legs" is a different phase. Your will get 220 volts between the different hot legs if correct. If you see near 0 then you are on the same phase leg. Things will still work but you can now be overloading the neutral.
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Old 08-14-2024, 04:40 PM   #11
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60 amps on the neutral is not a problem, the wiring can handle it and if you dig in to the transfer switch, it's built to handle 60 amps.

This setup is no different then running an onboard 7,000 watt generator. They are 2 3500 watt, 120 volt generators tied together at the circuit breakers.

Larger generators are often wired for split phase 120/240 volts but not the ones around 7000 watts.
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