3/4 ton diesel study

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Still playing the word game.
What I posted from Fleet Ford weight specs says what it says and just like NHTSA says about the truck mfg may choose the sum of the gawrs as the trucks gvwr...and I've even posted a state weight regulation that says the same thing like this one is worded...

19.05. weight scale..
(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

Now we'll see how you twist this one

I want to read 1 thought 3 and 5 to whatever. Where is the link to this information.

[CWSWine]

I went through a dozen of commercial truck manuals of 18 wheelers for Peterbilt, Kenworth, Mack, and Freightliner and they say the same thing about GVWR. Below is a sample from a Peterbilt 600 series truck operating manual under loading on page 24.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Common sense and engineering specs tells us the trucks mfg frame...suspension...other load carrying components are designed to support the trucks gawrs .

Per Fleet Ford website vehicle weight specs in paragraph #4 on every page says; sniped for length
* Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle**

So its very obvious the truck is fully capable of a gvwr summed from the trucks gawrs.

Well I read that as the maximum GVWR has to be equal or less the sum of the GAWR. This is likely for Cab Chassis 450/4500 and above the Class3 14,000# max GVWR.
If this is so true, why would GM keep their 3500 DRW GVWR at 13,025# for years when the GAWR’s were greater than 14,000#. During this time both Ford and Ram’s 350/3500 DRW trucks had 14,000# GVWR! There had to be a reason that GM didn’t match the 14,000# GVWR, when their GAWR exceed 14,000#!

[BLtravels]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

I see this a lot on this forum...... if someone asks for advice on what vehicle to use based on some high GVWR number trailer, someone will suggest using a properly equipped truck that does not go over the posted payload capacity of the truck.

It never fails that shortly thereafter, someone will make a suggestion that a truck with a lesser payload can handle it just fine because of (insert your anecdotal evidence here). When anyone tries to dismiss that and suggests following the sticker on the truck, those people get labeled as weight rangers, or weight police, etc.... and are the ones that get belittled and criticized because those people don't follow that way of thinking. Some will go to great lengths to try and dispel any suggestion of following the payload rating on the stickers.

So why are the ones who want to follow the manufacturer ratings wrong and why should they be made out to be the bad guy? I don't see how anyone who is advocating safety should be classified as wrong, and how anyone who
wants to spend hours trying to convince anyone else that they can disregard the door placards as right.

In the end, it's your own personal choice and you are free to make it, but I do think it's important that people look upon these types of threads as coming from novice haulers and adjust their recommendations accordingly.

I, for one, do not want to read about a fellow RV'er on the forum having an accident because they took their brand new truck and trailer out on a haul and wrecked it because they didn't understand the suggestions that I made on the forum. Therefore, helping what could be a novice hauler to understand the placard and following it just seems logical and safe. Not sure why anyone would even want to argue that.

If after some years they become comfortable enough to really understand their rig's capabilities and decide to push it a little further, they would at least understand the basics and have some experience.

Very well stated and a great way to end this thread!

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

Well I read that as the maximum GVWR has to be equal or less the sum of the GAWR. This is likely for Cab Chassis 450/4500 and above the Class3 14,000# max GVWR.
If this is so true, why would GM keep their 3500 DRW GVWR at 13,025# for years when the GAWR’s were greater than 14,000#. During this time both Ford and Ram’s 350/3500 DRW trucks had 14,000# GVWR! There had to be a reason that GM didn’t match the 14,000# GVWR, when their GAWR exceed 14,000#!

That’s gonna be a challenge to explain away as marketing hype or for registration/insurance reasons. Surely someone will give it a go.

Another consideration in regard to loading a vehicle to the sum of both axle ratings, is the impracticality of precisely loading each axle to its maximum rated capacity. I’mt would then be imperative to maintain that balance.

[JIMNLIN]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I want to read 1 thought 3 and 5 to whatever. Where is the link to this information.

I don't do website links anymore. Just like NHTSA home page info I posted that goes into cyber space after a new home page is posted. States are always changing their websites with different operating systems.

#1 through #3 is the reason I paste and copy ...there is no #5.



Weight scales:

19.05 (1) The driver of a vehicle on a highway, when so required by a peace officer, shall

(a) stop the vehicle at the time and place specified by such peace officer for the purpose of weighing the whole or part thereof by means of stationary or portable scales, measuring the dimensions of the vehicle and load, measuring and inspecting the tires thereon, inspecting the load carried, or for any other purpose under this Act or regulations,

(b) drive the vehicle to the nearest public stationary or portable scales for the purpose of weighing the vehicle and load, and

(c) rearrange the load upon the vehicle or remove the whole or part of the load from the vehicle in order to comply with the provisions of the Act, regulations or permit before continuing to drive or operate the vehicle.

(2) The driver of a vehicle on a highway, when directed by a traffic sign on the highway to drive over scales, shall drive the vehicle to the scales for the purpose of weighing the whole or part thereof by means of stationary or portable scales, measuring the dimensions of the vehicle and load, measuring and inspecting the tires thereon, inspecting the load carried, or for any purpose under this Act or regulations.

(3) The gross weight of any tandem axles and the gross weight of any group of axles shall be the sum of the gross axle weights of all the axles comprising the tandem axles or the group of axles, as the case may be.

(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

[move on]

Note that the above definition of GVW is different than the GVWR on the manufacturer's door sticker. The door sticker GVWR is usually about 10% less that the sum of the axle ratings, which takes into account vehicle stability issues.

[CWSWine]

[]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

I don't do website links anymore. Just like NHTSA home page info I posted that goes into cyber space after a new home page is posted. States are always changing their websites with different operating systems.

#1 through #3 is the reason I paste and copy ...there is no #5.

Weight scales:

19.05 (1) The driver of a vehicle on a highway, when so required by a peace officer, shall

First, all the towing guides that I have to check state that it is UNSAFE TO EXCEED THE GVWR. Then you said Ford Fleet says you can load to axle ratings but in 5 minutes I found the same statement this “must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR” in the Ford Fleet website. I check the owner's manual and website over the road 18 wheelers Class 8 trucks like Peterbilt, Freightliner, Mack, and Kenworth and they have the “Warning” not to exceed GVWR or cause serious injury or death. I have come to the concision that loading to axle ratings is “Bad Information” and loading above GVWR is a safety factor.
Now you post a quote that isn’t verifiable about enforcement I am not worried about enforcement I am worried about the safety of me, my family, and others on the road.

This is from the owner's manual of Class 8 18 Wheeler over the road truck under the title of "Truck Loading" and notices the warnings from Peterbilt.

[JIMNLIN]

I have come to the concision that loading to axle ratings is “Bad Information” and loading above GVWR is a safety factor.
Now you post a quote that isn’t verifiable about enforcement I am not worried about enforcement I am worried about the safety of me, my family, and others on the road.

So whats new....I'm not surprised at your mis conclusion about loading to axle ratings is bad information. You have yet pointed to any legal source to back your wild claims other that point to truck mfg adds.
If your worried about trucks loaded to the max gawrs then you sure don't need to take your family out on our nations highways with trucking other truck owners around.

Then you said Ford Fleet says you can load to axle ratings

What I said was quote from Fleet Ford; * Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle**. The discussion centered around what LDT mfg gvwr can be.
Send us some legal motor vehicle weight regs to back up your claims that using the trucks axle ratings is a bad idea.
Any way like Biscuit says this horse i has been beat to death.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

So whats new....I'm not surprised at your mis conclusion about loading to axle ratings is bad information. You have yet pointed to any legal source to back your wild claims other that point to truck mfg adds.
If your worried about trucks loaded to the max gawrs then you sure don't need to take your family out on our nations highways with trucking other truck owners around.


What I said was quote from Fleet Ford; * Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle**. The discussion centered around what LDT mfg gvwr can be.
Send us some legal motor vehicle weight regs to back up your claims that using the trucks axle ratings is a bad idea.
Any way like Biscuit says this horse i has been beat to death.

You can't point to one website that supports loading to Axle Weights other than the stuff you post that I think you just made up since it can't be verified but I can point to many that say it is dangerous to exceed the GVWR. You just want people to believe what you say and don't question it because it is lost in cyberspace. LOL

You can post one link that says it is safe to load to axle ratings! Not One. I post dozens that say it is not safe to exceed GVWR.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

So whats new....I'm not surprised at your mis conclusion about loading to axle ratings is bad information. You have yet pointed to any legal source to back your wild claims other that point to truck mfg adds.
If your worried about trucks loaded to the max gawrs then you sure don't need to take your family out on our nations highways with trucking other truck owners around.


What I said was quote from Fleet Ford; * Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle**. The discussion centered around what LDT mfg gvwr can be.
Send us some legal motor vehicle weight regs to back up your claims that using the trucks axle ratings is a bad idea.
Any way like Biscuit says this horse i has been beat to death.

Well once you pass GVWR you are in legal limbo, as you have exceeded a weight the vehicle manufacturers said is unsafe to exceed! Now a cop will never likely to pull you over and check for that unless the rear is really sagging.

Where the issue comes is if involved in a crash even if not cited, a good personal injury lawyer will likely have you in civil court.

You keep talking axle ratings, well our 2001 Ram 2500 had axles of 5,200# and 6,084# the rear being for the stock tire size, we had the optional LT265/75-16E with a 3,415# rating not noted on the VIN label. It also had the optional Camper Package with the 3500 rear springs.
Well the 2500’s total axle rating was 11,284#. The truck weighed 10,500# with the 5er attached, still under both axle ratings, that was the GVWR of the 3500 DRW that year!
We felt very exposed to a lawsuit if involved in an accident, so now we’ll within GVWR.

Can’t do that now as most 250/2500’s have rear axle ratings of less than 6,000# and even with a 6,000# front axle max would be 12,000#.

[PulNSerenity]

Originally Posted by BLtravels

Very well stated and a great way to end this thread!

Amen!

[Bill Nourse]

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

Can’t do that now as most 250/2500’s have rear axle ratings of less than 6,000# and even with a 6,000# front axle max would be 12,000#.

Where are you getting these numbers? A 2021 2500 HD Chev Duramax 4x4 crew cab SWB has a rear axle rating of 6,600# and 5,600 for the front with a payload of 3,546 and GVWR of 11,200. These numbers are straight from the Chevrolet web site.

[BLtravels]

Originally Posted by PulNSerenity

Amen!

LOL..Diesel or Gas Ram?