3/4 ton diesel study

[BLtravels]

I know this topic has been discussed to the point of ad nauseam. But I just wanted to share my experience and maybe give it a different approach. Since I started, first in the TT and later the FW world, I analyzed my weights to death after watching videos from the RV Safety Institute and speaking with Walter Cannon, Director at RVSEF (RV Safety and Education Foundation). Being new I wanted to make sure I was doing it right plus I am sort of anal that way. Lots of research.
To preface; I haul a 28.5 RSTS Jayco FW with a Ram 2500, 6.4L gas, 3K payload rating. The gasser gave me an extra 1000 lbs of payload that I wanted. Won't get into gas versus diesel issues here as there is plenty of that already out there. Other than the primary fact that EXTRA PAYLOAD the gas engine gave me and how it fit into my equations.
Throughout all my camping trips and a recent trip out West I constantly see 3/4 diesels pulling full profile FWs (Montana, Solitudes, Pinnacles, etc). I think, what am I missing as I would like a bigger FW. I know the diesels can pull more but how do they handle the payload/pin weight? I started asking, nicely. I heard all the time. This truck can pull...18K, 20K.."no problem at all". "What about your payload/pin weight" I ask. Blank stares! They repeat...it's a diesel it can pull this weight easy. I ask about the yellow sticker on the door, again...."yellow sticker??" Can I look I ask them.."sure, what does it say?" they ask. This became an informal survey on my part and started keeping track, most were in the low 2K range, many just below in the 1900 lb range and only one at 2290 lbs. I know it's a small sample but I spoke and looked at over 15 different set ups (actually many more than that before I kept track). Not a single one of them had ever been to a scale. I nicely suggested they do so. Many of them stated they "added airbags", probably due to sag. It does nothing for pin weight.
The RVSEF states that 60% of TV and 55% of FW exceed the safe weight!
So, my point, especially if you are new and getting into the Fifth Wheel world, do your homework. DON'T ask an RV or truck dealer!! There is plenty of good information on proper weights when towing and view this video (https://rvacademy.com/my-class/under...-towing-guides)
If you are pulling a large FW with a 3/4 ton, please go get weighed and make special note of your door jamb yellow sticker and TV rear axle weights, lots of good info on how to do that here and other forums.
Be safe and drive with confidence!

[Old-Biscuit]

Truck rear axle carries the pin weight of 5vr

Figure 22% of 5vr GVWR for WET pin

Do not exceed Trucks RAWR/Tire Max Load Ratings

It is as simple as that.....

[Old-Biscuit]

Trucks Rear Axle/Tires Carry the 5vr pin weight

Figure 22% of 5vr GVWR for WET Pin weight

Do not exceed Trucks RAWR/tire Max Load Ratings

It is as simple as that.............

[JIMNLIN]

The RVSEF states that 60% of TV and 55% of FW exceed the safe weight!

And a safe weight for a tv is in the rv world ...?? And a safe wight for a 5th wheel rv trailer in the rv world is... ??

Old news and This gets beaten....your right .....ad nauseam

[0rion]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Trucks Rear Axle/Tires Carry the 5vr pin weight

Figure 22% of 5vr GVWR for WET Pin weight

Do not exceed Trucks RAWR/tire Max Load Ratings

It is as simple as that.............

Wouldn't that be pin weight if 5er is at it's gvwr? Toy haulers are pin heavy so it would make sense to me that this method wouldn't be accurate with those if most or all of your weight is behind the axles? Not arguing....asking. Is there a ball park percentage method for those?

[Old-Biscuit]

[QUOTE=0rion;5916276]Wouldn't that be pin weight if 5er is at it's gvwr? Toy haulers are pin heavy so it would make sense to me that this method wouldn't be accurate with those if most or all of your weight is behind the axles? Not arguing....asking. Is there a ball park percentage method for those?[/QUOTE

Figure 22% of 5vr GVWR gives you a WET pin number one can compare to trucks RAWR and the SCALED weight of truck

Is there enough capacity of rear axle weight to carry that WET number and NOT exceed the RAWR

TH loaded is NOT going to remove a lot of weight off pin
So if WET Pin is too much need smaller 5vr or bigger truck

Simple math.........

[oscarvan]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Truck rear axle carries the pin weight of 5vr

Figure 22% of 5vr GVWR for WET pin

Do not exceed Trucks RAWR/Tire Max Load Ratings

It is as simple as that.....

No not as simple as that. The point is that in addition to the rear axle/tires weight the truck has a GVWR and with a diesel 3/4 ton and a large 5ver the pin will eat it all plus some. Nothing left for people and stuff in the TV. (The diesel engine adds a lot of weight.)

[TXiceman]

Nothing like beating and old dead horse.

Ken

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by oscarvan

No not as simple as that. The point is that in addition to the rear axle/tires weight the truck has a GVWR and with a diesel 3/4 ton and a large 5ver the pin will eat it all plus some. Nothing left for people and stuff in the TV. (The diesel engine adds a lot of weight.)

YES it is.........RAWR/Tire Max Load ratings---do not exceed

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

YES it is.........RAWR/Tire Max Load ratings---do not exceed

EVERY SINGLE Truck manufacturer will clearly state in the owner's manual, on their websites, in their literature,......everywhere, to NEVER exceed any of the weight capacities for the truck.....GVWR, RAWR, FAWR, GCVWR, P A Y L O A D, and tire load capacity. You don't simply get to pick and choose which ones to exceed or not exceed.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Truck rear axle carries the pin weight of 5vr

Figure 22% of 5vr GVWR for WET pin

Do not exceed Trucks RAWR/Tire Max Load Ratings

It is as simple as that.....

First to BLTravels, the Yellow Payload sticker becomes moot as soon as the TV arrives at the dealer. If the dealer adds accessories to the TV the payload on the sticker is reduced by the weight of the accessories! It is strictly a comparison tool when comparing TV’s.

To Old Biscuit, using axle and tire ratings may be a legally enforceable sight is some states, but once you exceed GVWR you are in legal limbo!
All owners manuals state several times that it is unsafe to exceed ANY RATING!
With my old Ram 2500 I was towing about 13,000# and 2,700# pin. I was inside axle and tire rating, but 1,700# over GVWR, I am sure a personal injury lawyer would have loved to taken me to court!
I never worried about a ticket, I did worry about going to court!

[PulNSerenity]

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

First to BLTravels, the Yellow Payload sticker becomes moot as soon as the TV arrives at the dealer. If the dealer adds accessories to the TV the payload on the sticker is reduced by the weight of the accessories! It is strictly a comparison tool when comparing TV’s.

To Old Biscuit, using axle and tire ratings may be a legally enforceable sight is some states, but once you exceed GVWR you are in legal limbo!
All owners manuals state several times that it is unsafe to exceed ANY RATING!
With my old Ram 2500 I was towing about 13,000# and 2,700# pin. I was inside axle and tire rating, but 1,700# over GVWR, I am sure a personal injury lawyer would have loved to taken me to court!
I never worried about a ticket, I did worry about going to court!

My Ram 2500 is in about the same situation you are in. Actually a little bit heavier than that. According to my scale sheets I am just under on most of my axles (still have 1k left on the front truck axle). The only area where I see I am over is my truck's gross. Over by about 800lbs. It's the 6.4. I have re-geared it to 4.56 so it does alright. I have done some mountains in WV, but if I did any out west I am sure I would be in trouble. I just don't like being that maxed out on everything, so I am probably going to get a 3500 srw CTD once they come out with the new tranny. Glad I was not holding my breath. They originally said 2nd or 3rd quarter, now I am hearing MAYBE 4th quarter.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by TXiceman

Nothing like beating and old dead horse.

Ken

He’s a new member, the horse isn’t dead in his eyes. Looks like he’s read a lot and now is looking to engage the forum for opinions on his conclusions. Isn’t that the point of discussions here?

[CecilD]

OP, welcome to the forum. I previously entered into this same debate on this form. Consensus by many is that truck engineers are fools, and the gross combined weight ratings of trucks should be ignored. However, tire ratings are gospel, and should be the single criterium for towing safely.

My guess is those that impugn you for even posting are probably towing overweight. Thanks for sharing your experience and opinions.