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Old 05-26-2024, 11:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdauto View Post
Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this.
full floating rears use what i think in my head the op is talking about, maybe they did the same for a trailer axle?

as far as checking on the road, nope, never do. ill pass a hand near the wheels at stops and see if any are hot, but if i dont need to im not touching anything. i did find an overtightened brake this way once. otherwise, just because of luck, something can run forever with a small problem until you know about it. the minute you realize theres a problem but say "nah, its run this long itll be fine" is the time the clock starts ticking. i know thats not really an answer, but seems to be the way things work out alot for me.
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Old 05-27-2024, 11:46 AM   #16
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After 2002, Dexter EZ-lube axles don't use a cotter key, they use a D washer along with a retainer.
See the attached PDF
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Old 05-27-2024, 12:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliber View Post
After 2002, Dexter EZ-lube axles don't use a cotter key, they use a D washer along with a retainer.
See the attached PDF
Thanks for providing more/better information and correcting me. My apologies to the O.P., but we had little to go on. There are different castellated "tin cap retainers" that use cotter pins for most trailer axles.

I attached a link with a real pic for reference. https://partscapitaltrailer.ca/produ...axles-dx06-190

In my opinion, these should be "1 time" fasteners and replaced at each removal. My dually rear axle uses a more complex version of these retainers, and I replaced them even though they were stupid expensive for what they are.

My best guess is one got loose, then the axle nut slowly wiggled loose. If it's LH side it's even more likely.
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Old 05-27-2024, 09:49 PM   #18
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The previous failure was on the right front tire. This one is on the left rear.



OK, y’all inspired me to go out in the wet and take a look at the spindle…

There doesn't appear to be any way to pull images directly into the text, so I'm going to try uploading and hopefully they'll show up where they should.

Here’s the spindle assembly. As I said, there’s grease on the spindle. Nothing is blue, nothing appears to have gotten hot.

1.jpg

Here are the pieces that were on the spindle. You can see the large nut is NOT a castle nut. Just an ordinary nut. Big D washer, outer bearing , inner bearing cage, etc. The inner bearing inner race would have come off with some persuasion, but you can see it in the earlier image.

2.jpg

Spindle again. You can see the outer bearing spun, and there are images showing the threaded are with NO hold for a cotter pin...

3.jpg
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This last pair of shots is one of the "keepers" that go over the large nut. I have spares 'cause they get deformed after a few uses, so I keep new ones handy.

8.jpg
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To me, this looks like bearing failure. Nut's still there, lots of grease, but both bearings destroyed or failed...
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Old 05-27-2024, 10:31 PM   #19
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From what I can see, the bearings simply disintegrated. This is typically from improper lubrication (greasing), contaminants, or possibly over or undertightented bearings when adjusted.

I'd probably be replacing all bearings on all wheels with quality brand bearings and seals. Use a GOOD grease, I like Lucas X-Tra, but that grease cannot be mixed with other types such as Red'n tacky. Since everything would be new, only the rest needs a thorough cleaning.

I'd make sure whoever assembles this knows what they're doing. It's easy to overtighten and overheat a bearing. Use a different person/shop for the repair.

My earlier assumption (no pics, remember?) was that the cotter pin came off or was missing and the spindle nut backed off until the whole thing flew off. Since the nut is still there and we now know it's a different retainer than a cotter pin we'll forget that, it's not the issue.
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Old 05-28-2024, 01:04 PM   #20
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You may want to consider using Hub Savers. They are suppose to prevent the loss of a wheel, etc. if bearing failed.

I also agree with others who said the bearing failed (disintegrated). That's usually from improper lubing or too long between repacking. It might be from being overloaded; not sure tho if that can cause a bearing failure.

Glad you weren't hurt.
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Old 05-28-2024, 10:30 PM   #21
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I can't argue that ANY of the things listed could be at fault. I know how I did the bearings when I packed them, and presume the shops were using some similar procedure…

Dexter instructions say to lubricate every 12 months or 12,000 miles. We don’t go 12,000 miles/year, so I’ve always done, or had the bearings done, annually.

Dexter says to pack the bearings by pushing grease into the bearing from the palm of the hand – same procedure we used 40 years ago.

Here’s the procedure specified by Dexter for assembling the E-Z Lube axles…
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers, and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previous section on hub removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 Ft. Lbs. (12” wrench or pliers with full hand force.)
2. Loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque. Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the nut until just snug,
4. Align the internal tab of the retainer clip with the flat on the spindle. Then snap the retainer clip (part number 006-190-00) over the spindle jam nut.
5. If the nut is too tight, remove the retainer and back the nut off approximately one twelfth of a turn and reinstall the retainer. The nut should now be free to move slightly.
6. Reinstall grease cap.

Procedure seems pretty simple and reasonably idiot-proof. The retainer should always go onto the flat on the spindle within 1/12 of a turn.

In the end, presuming everybody is doing something reasonably correct, and the bearings have grease and are correctly adjusted, HOW do I prevent this from happening going forward? Both failures had grease and no appearance of dry bearings - there was grease on the spindle both times and the spindles weren’t blue.

Same question I asked earlier – what is everybody else doing to check wheel bearings when traveling? Or, does everybody just pack the bearings (or have them packed) annually or whenever, and not worry about them the rest of the time?

I’m going to contact the Hub Saver people tomorrow to see if they have what I need.

I’m STILL looking for a recommendation for a TPMS that will let me know if something catastrophic, like losing a wheel, happens. I know the TST 507 I've been using DIDN'T indicate there was any problem, so what are people using that would do a better job?
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Old 05-28-2024, 10:51 PM   #22
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Not taking anything away from other posters, I would pull all three of the remaining wheels and inspect them forall of the above issues.
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Old 05-29-2024, 05:11 AM   #23
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^^^^^^^^^^and before the rig moves even a foot^^^^^^^^

Still looking for how the shoes, springs, retainers, etc came off with the wheel when the backing plate is still there.
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Old 05-29-2024, 07:29 AM   #24
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The trailer is moving a couple blocks this morning to the mechanical shop. At the MOMENT, State Farm wants to put a new spindle on the existing axle. I talked to the shop yesterday and they will examine things, but the opinion at the moment is NOT to weld a new spindle on the existing axle, but to replace the axle. While it's there, I'll have them pull everything on the other axle off, clean and inspect the bearings, and replace anything that's not perfect.

Presuming they DO put on a new axle, it should come from Dexter with all the components on the ends - drums, bearings, everything. I'll request that the shop inspect, make sure they're lubed, and adjust the bearings on the new axle - just in case.


As for all the brake parts inside the drum, my guess is when the wheel starts flopping around it knocks the springs and all the brake parts loose and they go with the wheel. All that stuff is just held on with a couple springs, so it doesn't surprise me it all gets knocked loose.
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Old 05-29-2024, 07:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by dkperez View Post
Dexter says to pack the bearings by pushing grease into the bearing from the palm of the hand – same procedure we used 40 years ago.

Here’s the procedure specified by Dexter for assembling the E-Z Lube axles…
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers, and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previous section on hub removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 Ft. Lbs. (12” wrench or pliers with full hand force.)
2. Loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque. Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the nut until just snug,
4. Align the internal tab of the retainer clip with the flat on the spindle. Then snap the retainer clip (part number 006-190-00) over the spindle jam nut.
5. If the nut is too tight, remove the retainer and back the nut off approximately one twelfth of a turn and reinstall the retainer. The nut should now be free to move slightly.
6. Reinstall grease cap.

Procedure seems pretty simple and reasonably idiot-proof. The retainer should always go onto the flat on the spindle within 1/12 of a turn.

In the end, presuming everybody is doing something reasonably correct, and the bearings have grease and are correctly adjusted, HOW do I prevent this from happening going forward? Both failures had grease and no appearance of dry bearings - there was grease on the spindle both times and the spindles weren’t blue.

Same question I asked earlier – what is everybody else doing to check wheel bearings when traveling? Or, does everybody just pack the bearings (or have them packed) annually or whenever, and not worry about them the rest of the time?

I’m STILL looking for a recommendation for a TPMS that will let me know if something catastrophic, like losing a wheel, happens. I know the TST 507 I've been using DIDN'T indicate there was any problem, so what are people using that would do a better job?
Don't assume shops pack bearings by hand. I have seen shops/individuals use a bearing packing tool. I have always packed bearings by hand and have not used the bearing packing device.
We full time and I do the bearings once a year. When we stop at a rest stop or such, I feel all 6 wheels to see if bearings are getting hot. Only other thing I do on a regular basis is check tire pressure and check the lug nuts.

I use the Tire Minder system and recently when a tire blew, it did not indicate an issue, because the tire problem was so fast, the Tire Minder didn't have time to show the loss of air.
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Old 05-29-2024, 08:09 AM   #26
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I'd not consider welding a new spindle on, when axle replacement is the obvious fix.

While I am not disputing Dexter's bearing grease interval (1yr/12k), I would not service bearings every year, with low mileage. JMO, but unless there is an issue, every 3 yrs should be GTG on bearing service. Yes, a too hot hub, a brake issue, is time to pull hub, no matter time/mileage.

Having different shops/mechanics doing bearing service every year, may lead to more problems, than just leaving them alone. A good quality grease, in a proper packed, proper installed bearing set, will last a long time.

Kind of if it ain't broke/ don't fix thing. Just my 5 cents!
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Old 05-29-2024, 08:28 AM   #27
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I had a very similar failure once on my new bass boat trailer that had maybe 500 miles on it. I caught it before the wheel came off totally, repaired it and limped it home. The obvious problem was the bearings failed, the reason bad heat treating on the bearing cages. When i got mine home i ripped apart the other three wheels and my Father who was a metallurgist took a deep look at the bearings under a powerful microscope in his machine shop. He was able to show me where the heat treating was done improperly and there were microscopic cracks everywhere. It was only a matter of time before the other wheels failed. I had to buy a new disc/hub assembly for the one that failed because it was damaged and it came with bearings and guess what, when looked at with the same microscope they showed the same bad heat treating. My conclusion is Dexter is buying the cheapest bearings they can and whoever is making them has poor quality control.


I ended up replacing all of my bearings with Timken bearings and never had another problem with them in over 100k miles on that trailer.
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Old 05-29-2024, 10:42 AM   #28
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I always do the same thing when we stop - walk around and feel each hub. I've never had any feel hot, but this time, when it failed, we were only going 90-100 miles so there weren't any stops.


As far as packing bearings, when I worked for the dealer, we frequently used one of the small, conical bearing packers, and in my experience it was a really good way to get grease evenly in between all the bearings. At home, it's just always been easier to pack them by hand, though a lot messier!


Tire pressure is easy since the TPMS tells me all 8 tires, and it's always worked great for leaks. Sorry to hear it doesn't react quickly to a disappearing sensor!


The shop that has the trailer looked at the spindle and one way or another it's getting an axle. I'm also going to have them thoroughly check the suspension, the other wheels, and everything on the new axle when they get it. They guy that owns the shop has a 30 foot 5th wheel so he's familiar with trailers and they're one of the places that has periodically serviced the trailer in the past.


I ALSO just ordered TWO sets of Hub Savers (4 total), so those will be going on too. Having watched some of the videos at their site, and talking to the guy that invented the device, At $80 for all 4, I figure it's a lot cheaper than a tire, and hopefully it'll make things safer in the event of a problem.
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