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Old 05-30-2024, 04:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dkperez View Post
2010/2011 Keystone Cougar 246RL. Ford F-350 Lariat tow vehicle.
...
One concern (other than the fact that this trailer has now done this twice) is that the TPMS NEVER alarmed or indicated that the wheel was gone. After at LEAST 20 minutes (time to notice, check it, and get the trailer home), the TPMS was STILL saying the left rear wheel (and all the others) STILL had 72 PSI in it.

I EXPECTED the tpms would quickly show ZERO for pressure, and hopefully sound an alarm like it does when the tire pressure starts going down. It never did until MUCH later.

The TPMS is an older TST 507 with the monochrome display, but it’s worked fine for over 15 years. I just wasn’t aware that if a sensor disappears, it doesn’t tell you. Is there a different/better TPMS for the truck and trailer that would at least let me know we had a serious problem like a wheel coming off? I saw some from TireMinder, and a few others, but I’d like something reliable and trustworthy that will actually let me know when there’s a major problem like this.
...
Can't help you with suggestions for a better TPMS system but can tell you our story. Several years ago, we experienced a sudden blowout on the trailer. I knew it because we heard it. The TST507 system remained silent. Had the spare put on and the blown tire put in the bed of the truck. Down the road about an hour later the 507 system alarm went off on the tire laying in the truck bed. I was told later that these systems are better at detecting slow leaks or high temps then they are at sudden air loss (and apparently runaway wheels, too). We were nearing the close of our RVing days so never pursued a replacement system. Good luck.
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Old 05-30-2024, 04:14 PM   #30
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I had a wheel come off, driver's side rear. I just caught a glimpse of something in the driver side rear-view mirror. And the truck a few hundred feet behind me made some serious erratic movements.

Spun 360.

I stopped, and he had an excited tale of dodging the tire as it bounced over his pickup. I'm very thankful that he didn't hit it, or worst, it hit is windshield. Wheel lug failed, and it caused the wheel to shimmy until it sheered all of the lugs off.

TMPS - it showed no alarm.

The reason I found out is that the TPMS system is not designed to alarm for a LOST CONTACT reading. Where the main unit cannot contact the individual wheel sensor.

However, the TPMS sensor was still attached to the valve stem and the tire was still fully inflated.

Did you find the wheel? Was it still inflated?
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Old 05-30-2024, 04:34 PM   #31
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First off, as a mechanic, if there is grease on the spinal, there’s no overheat issue. I’m pretty sure the nut came off, heat turns grease into powder. I would say the mechanic never locked the nut down using the tabs. This would cause exactly what you are stating. Especially when this happens 2 times. Look at the other hub assemblies, this is easy by popping the bearing covers off. This would be your tell tale sign of what is going on. Good luck on your future endeavours and hopefully your troubles will come to an end.
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Old 05-30-2024, 05:32 PM   #32
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First off, as a mechanic, if there is grease on the spinal, there’s no overheat issue. I’m pretty sure the nut came off, heat turns grease into powder. I would say the mechanic never locked the nut down using the tabs. This would cause exactly what you are stating. Especially when this happens 2 times. Look at the other hub assemblies, this is easy by popping the bearing covers off. This would be your tell tale sign of what is going on. Good luck on your future endeavours and hopefully your troubles will come to an end.
i could be wrong but i thought there was still a nut on the spindle in the pictures.

i just checked, top 2 pictures, the nuts on there.
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Old 05-30-2024, 06:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dkperez View Post

I’m STILL looking for a recommendation for a TPMS that will let me know if something catastrophic, like losing a wheel, happens. I know the TST 507 I've been using DIDN'T indicate there was any problem, so what are people using that would do a better job?
Well I'm not using a fancy one, it's the Tire Traker TT-600. The way it works is like most, the sensors report to the base every few minutes, however if there is a sudden loss of pressure it is supposed to alarm immediately. I've never had a sudden loss of pressure but I did test it by removing a sensor and it did alarm immediately. If a sensor disappears I don't think the base knows about it right away until the next check in is due. The reason the sensors are not in constant reporting mode is because it would cut battery life drastically.

I am not 100% sure if it is the sensors that initiate the report or if the base initiates it. At the very least your screen should have eventually reported a loss of signal. Mine always displays the last pressure reported until it receives an update, so in the morning they all show last nights pressures till I either start rolling or press the reset button, then I'll get up to date pressures in a few minutes. I think you are probably going to have to contact some of the manufacturer's tech support departments and ask about this issue of yours.
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Old 05-30-2024, 06:04 PM   #34
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The TST system does not alarm when a sensor goes out of range. For example, when you drop your trailer where you store it and drive away, do you get an alarm? It will display the last know reading that it had.
Do any other systems on the market alarm when you drive out of range of your trailer? Maybe some of them do?

This is the first I've seen of the 'Big D' retainer design without a cotter pin. I don't think I like it....
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Old 05-30-2024, 07:54 PM   #35
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Glad you are all ok. I have been helping friend move his dads estate from northern California back to ark. He has lost 1 axle and replaced 6 blow outs on 20ft box trailer. Also one aluminum rim on his 2002 ford f250 7.3 diesel 4x4. This is in 3yr time frame. My 14 ft box trailer has grease serts on end of axle also. Every stop for fuel i check hubs to see if hot and tire pressure. Also grab top of each tire and give good jerk on it like im trying to pull off to see if movement or clinking sound. Did catch loose tire one time. Be safe
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Old 05-30-2024, 08:12 PM   #36
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[B]ANYHOW, IS there a good TPMS that WILL do a better job of letting us know there's a problem. Our current one has been fine, letting us know about tire problems in time to address them BEFORE anything explodes, but it DIDN'T let me know when the wheel came off. What are other people using on 5th wheels that will work better?[/QUOTE]

My TPMS saved our bacon a couple of years ago - alerted us to a leaking tire that was going flat and had to be replaced. However, I have noticed that the TPMS receiver shows the last good information it received - and one of the tire's data was not changing - dead battery. But nothing to indicate that, just showing the same data for a couple of hundred hours.

So - based on my experience, no, there is not a TPMS that will give us an indication of the absence of a tire - it will continue to display the last data received.

So sorry about your tire loss, resulting damage, loss of confidence and the costs.
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Old 05-30-2024, 09:20 PM   #37
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Something is not making sense with your story... The pictures tell a very different version.

Those bearings were either dry, or over-torqued and got hot and boiled the grease out and disintegrated. The outside one spun on the spindle. That no way should ever happen on a properly lubed and torqued bearing.

I had a utility trailer and packed the wheel bearings on it and I could not decide between what I considered a little too tight, or a little loose. That was ONE position on the castle nut and the cotter pin. I chose the tighter setting. After driving 100 miles or so, I stopped and checked all 4 hubs. That one hub was very noticeably warmer that the other 3. I took the grease cap off, gave back that one notch and drove another 25 miles and re-checked it. It cooled right off, the same as the other 3 now.

See, if you over-torque and it warms up too much, metal expands and exasperates the problem. Once the grease cooks out, the bearing eventually dries up and seizes. No amount of residual grease on the spindle is going to cure that. Once it seizes, the inner bearing race starts to spin on the spindle which is apparent in your photos. No saving that spindle. The missing brake hardware is self explanatory given what happened.

If you hired that job done and have record of it, I would have a chat with them. Probably won't get too far tho...

In any case, either do the job yourself if you have the resources and knowledge, or find some reputable shop to do it for you. I am not sure there is such a thing any more with today's throw away society. I would never trust any shop doing bearings on my rig. I just don't think most employees in those shops have the knowledge or the mindset to so the job to my expectations.
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Old 05-30-2024, 10:17 PM   #38
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As others have noted. . .

1. The outer bearing spun on the spindle. It probably seized from insufficient lube or excess tightening of the axle nut.

2. That led to failure of the load-carrying inner bearing. Once that failed, there was nothing to prevent the wheel assembly from leaving.

Note. If you have not actually weighed the RV you just don't know if it is within its load ratings or not. It is worth noting that many RV manufacturer specs list the Empty (Dry) Weight without any options. Not even mandatory options. Mandatory options are a popular way of advertising a low MRSP combined with a low dry weight giving a high carrying capacity. The difference can easily be 200-300# with AC and a powered awning. Add 6-10 gallons of water in the water heater, even if the FW tank is empty.
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Old 05-31-2024, 06:57 AM   #39
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I haven't weighed it, but will when it's repaired.


As far as I can tell, no, the bearings didn't run dry and overheat. As the pictures show, the large nut and D ring were both in place, and the spindle still had a good supply of grease (EZ-lube spindles get a shot of grease periodically between services).


There's no bluing on the spindle or on either bearing race.


Outer bearing spun, inner bearing race was tight on the spindle and I didn't bother to hammer it off since it didn't matter. And both bearing cages were still on the spindle. Could it have been over-torqued? Possibly. But the first axle failure had gone 5 - 6 thousand miles since service. Seems like an over-torqued bearing would let go sooner than it did.



I reckon it could have been any of the things brought up so far.


HOPEFULLY, the Hub Savers will make this a smaller issue. I'll be carrying a complete brake drum assembly (I now have TWO spares from the surviving ends of the axles), greased and ready, with all the necessary parts to replace the drum assembly should it be needed. I figure that way if it DOES come apart, the Hub Saver avoids damage to the spindle, all the important pieces stay in place, and I can swap out the drum in a parking lot if necessary.


As far as the TPMS, it's disappointing that they don't detect the loss of signal for such a long time. Yes, when we drop the trailer (now that I think about it), it can be 10 or 20 minutes before the TPMS complains. It does work well for slow leaks, but not for wayward wheel assemblies.
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Old 05-31-2024, 10:44 AM   #40
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Just my 2cents, as far as monitoring while on the road. I've seen people use the laser thermometer, point at each hub every time you stop. Once you get a baseline temp range, you can see if something is running hot, possibly catching it before total failure. Good luck 👍
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Old 05-31-2024, 11:52 AM   #41
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i just made a post about axles i had installed last year. make sure someone pops the drums off and checks the brake assemblies. i just found a "keeper" that holds the adjuster in place not in place and not doing its job. it was installed incorrectly from the factory so, check your stuff.
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Old 05-31-2024, 01:44 PM   #42
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First, there is no good system out there that will advise of impending damage of any sort, much less tire status. The most you’ll find are those that will display n tire pressure and temp. It is up to the individual to check equipment before, during, and after operation thereby coming to know the overall status of anything.
Next, the manufacturer does not allow ample room or space for anything. They are only in the business of selling. No one bulls anything to the 100 year life span standard and really never have.
I believe if you’re on the second occasion of damaged equipment, there might be an issue of the equipment, all adjusted to standard, that in the end might not be up to the overall use. An example, steel vs aluminum. Both metal, but one can take more abuse in a situation than the other. You are the fortunate one if you injured nothing but your pride.
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