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Old 10-04-2023, 05:01 PM   #15
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Since it’s only been 6 years since your last 5th wheel you should still remember the major step up you made to the Dutch Star. You can count on one hand, seriously, the 5th wheels out there that come close to the amenities and fit and finish of a newer Newmar DS. We moved from an 05 Mountain Aire 43’ to a 2020 41’ Riverstone (owned by Forest River) and it was a step down on fit and finish. It’s still nice, but not the same level.

Weight is a problem with 5th wheels the nicer you go the more they weigh. This is obviously why nice class A DP’s weigh 40k plus!! If you’re wanting something at the top of the spectrum at 40’ you are 100% in dually trucks and maybe even limiting out on payload. New Horizons are at the limit at 40’ with GVWR of 22k-24k and pin weights of ~5k. I think Luxe are a little lighter and my Riverstone is 19k loaded with a pin of 4.2k.

We are very happy making the switch from Class A to 5th wheel but would love to step back up to the Newmar level and that’s just too much money and too much weight. We really like a 42’ New Horizons model but it’s not towable with any pickup with GVWR of something like 28k so the pin is likely 6k.

There are lots of good 5th wheels out there already mentioned from Grand Design and others but they are going to be more like your Ceder Creek not your Newmar.
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Old 10-05-2023, 11:36 PM   #16
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We went and looked at a bunch of different floor plans today. So far, the Grand Designs seem to be the best quality builds from what we have looked at.....but, lots more to look thru. We are in no hurry, probably a minimum of 1.5 years away.

We know that it won't be anywhere near the quality of out Dutch Star. Hard to beat heated tile floors when it is cold out! But, if we find the right one, we will be ok.

We had a Cedar Creek before. We looked at some Forest River toy haulers today. They were garbage. Don't remember the specific models, but they are nowhere near the quality that Forest River RVs had when we were shopping for them when we got our Cedar Creek. We expected much better.

We already planned on a dually as well. Been looking at trucks too.....I think they replaced the aluminum with gold or something....sheesh.

I also appreciate the thoughts and suggestions that people have. Helps to point us towards things we may not have been thinking about.
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Old 10-06-2023, 10:56 AM   #17
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We went and looked at a bunch of different floor plans today. So far, the Grand Designs seem to be the best quality builds from what we have looked at.....but, lots more to look thru. We are in no hurry, probably a minimum of 1.5 years away. .

I wonder if there is an Alliance or Brinkley you could look at?

In the Grand Design price point, I personally think there are better built options. Of course, wanting a Toy Hauler floorplan changes the availability of comparable options ....
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Old 10-07-2023, 10:41 PM   #18
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I wonder if there is an Alliance or Brinkley you could look at?

In the Grand Design price point, I personally think there are better built options. Of course, wanting a Toy Hauler floorplan changes the availability of comparable options ....
alliance is built exactly the same as the rest of them.
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Old 10-07-2023, 11:58 PM   #19
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I wonder if there is an Alliance or Brinkley you could look at?

In the Grand Design price point, I personally think there are better built options. Of course, wanting a Toy Hauler floorplan changes the availability of comparable options ....
Today we went to a dealership to look at some Brinkley RVs. They were closed on a Saturday because they were at an RV show......so, we went to an RV show that we did not know about around a 100 miles from our house.

We looked at a few Alliance RVs and found them to be on par with the Grand Designs in price and maybe a bit better quality than the GD, but not a step above, more of a bit better.

They did not have any Brinkley toy haulers, but they did have a couple of 5th wheels. They were 2 steps above the GD and Alliance RVs in quality and they were cheaper by a pretty good bit. Now, I am comparing Alliance/GD toy haulers to a regular Brinkley 5th wheel, so it is not a pure apples to apples comparison, but the lengths and amenities were similar. The quality however was an enormous difference. The Brinkley RVs were head and shoulders above even the non toy hauler 5th wheel models in quality, and seemed to run about 10% less on cost as well.

We will be doing some digging on Brinkley RVs for sure. Thanks for the recommendation!
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Old 10-08-2023, 01:08 PM   #20
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Today we went to a dealership to look at some Brinkley RVs. They were closed on a Saturday because they were at an RV show......so, we went to an RV show that we did not know about around a 100 miles from our house.

We looked at a few Alliance RVs and found them to be on par with the Grand Designs in price and maybe a bit better quality than the GD, but not a step above, more of a bit better.

They did not have any Brinkley toy haulers, but they did have a couple of 5th wheels. They were 2 steps above the GD and Alliance RVs in quality and they were cheaper by a pretty good bit. Now, I am comparing Alliance/GD toy haulers to a regular Brinkley 5th wheel, so it is not a pure apples to apples comparison, but the lengths and amenities were similar. The quality however was an enormous difference. The Brinkley RVs were head and shoulders above even the non toy hauler 5th wheel models in quality, and seemed to run about 10% less on cost as well.

We will be doing some digging on Brinkley RVs for sure. Thanks for the recommendation!
This matches my assessment as well, and is exactly why I suggested you look at both Alliance and Brinkley if you had looked at GD. I wish Brinkley had a more diverse line-up, but they will get there in time I presume. Enjoy the research!
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Old 10-08-2023, 07:31 PM   #21
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I personally think the first couple years of production coming out of the “new” start ups is always far superior. Then, they build the brand enough and sell out to the big players like Thor, Forest River, Winnebago, etc. and things go down hill.

I put “new” in quotes because they are always started up by RV industry veterans that pull from the existing workforce to start a new brand. Seems all are within a 30 mile radius of Elkhart, IN.

The Grand Design founder sold out in 2016 and actually jumped into the marine side of recreational products and started Barletta boats (pontoons) just down the road from Elkhart. Guess what? He sold it in 2021 to none other than Winnebago Industries just like Grand Design.

On a positive, I will say that Winnebago seems to be much better supporting their acquisitions and letting them run mostly on their own. Newmar hasn’t really changed much neither has Grand Design.

I’m liking Brinkley let’s see what happens.
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Old 10-08-2023, 11:58 PM   #22
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There's no replacement for getting out there and walking lots and kicking tires.

And it's difficult to decide what brand of RV to buy. Many brands are comparable, and it's the dealer that makes the difference.

If I had a choice locally, I would buy the brand of trailer the best quality local dealer sells. Dealer service means a whole lot.

That said, you're looking for the best bang for your buck. Seems like Grand Design has hit a home run in their first 8 years in business. Their Reflections lead the market in sales and so do their big toy haulers.
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Old 10-09-2023, 10:04 AM   #23
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If you are coming out of a Newmar motorhome, you will want to look at Luxe, New Horizon, DRV and Riverstone to get near the same quality. Brinkley is new to the market.

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Old 10-28-2023, 08:45 PM   #24
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If you are coming out of a Newmar motorhome, you will want to look at Luxe, New Horizon, DRV and Riverstone to get near the same quality. Brinkley is new to the market.

Ken
SpaceCraft, New Horizon, Luxe; in that order. Honestly, I'd stop the list right there, DRV and Riverstone are far more mid market than the top 3. If you want to go into more affordable units, that's where DRV, Riverstone, Grand Design and others start to play. Honestly, for my $$, I'd either save up for the top 3 or drop down to something like a Grand Design or Raptor. The difference between something like a DRV and a Grand Design isn't huge, but the price jump is quite shocking.

You'll know you're in a "top brand" by a few easy to see differences. IS and 17.5" tires standard. Soft touch walls. Ducted AC or mini-splits. 7K gas or diesel generators. Dual pane windows standard.

Another way to put it, if you see a lot of them, they're not the "top tier". The top 3 I mentioned might have a few 1000 units produced, TOTAL, on the road today. Grand Design makes that many RVs in a few months.

If money was no object, I'd go straight to New Horizons, Spacecraft is amazing but you're going to need a semi to tow it. New Horizons you can still tow with a regular truck and they are really, really nice units. Figure 300-500K out the door for a new one.
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Old 10-29-2023, 07:39 AM   #25
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Only the shortest New Horizons are towable with a 3500/4500 class 3 pickup. We’re very interested in them and have a casual look out for when a 5-7 year old used one comes to market. I agree they are really nice and comparable to your mid level luxury class A’s.

The problem is they are very heavy with the 40’ and under having wet pin weights up to 5,000 lbs. We have found a couple nice used ones in the price range we’re considering but they were 42-45’ and pin weights are beyond the carrying capacity of our dually. We are not interested in a MDT to tow with because we still use the pickup…as a pickup.

The way things have been going with pickups maybe in a few years they will up GVWR again to maybe 15K and we could consider a 41-42’ model.
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Old 10-29-2023, 09:08 AM   #26
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And I am sure more knowledgeable help will come along with brand descriptions ...

but apart from the top lines of the big names (e.g. Pinnacle by Jayco) the top tier seem to be DRV, New Horizons, Luxe, and is Spacecraft still a thing? Some of those lean toward customs and some have toy hauler options.

I did the same move. October 2022 I saw the value of my Entegra go up so I sold my loved DP. I ordered a new 2023 Ram abd waited for it to come in. I also ordered a new Grand Design toy hauler but when it came in it wasn’t built to my specs.

I found a used 2020 DRV (I wanted the Moyride suspension) and now we’re fairly happy. We do miss the quality of the Entegra but not the headaches or worry. I’m thinking our next move will be either New Horizons or a Space Craft.
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Old 10-29-2023, 09:14 AM   #27
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New Horizons makes a Summit model that’s capable of being towed by a 3500 dually yet it’s still got good quality. That’s what we’re looking at
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Old 10-29-2023, 10:14 AM   #28
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They discontinued the Summit line and only have Majestic going forward. You will have to go used for a Summit. They are a bit lighter, closer to my Riverstone pin weight, lengths being equal. Certainly much higher quality though. We haven’t seen a used Summit with the floor plans we like. Actually, most of the ones seen for sale are Majestic.

We really like the 42’ model with the sectional couch and bar top in place of the dining table. They just weigh too much need a tow vehicle that can handle a 5,500 pin weight.
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