Battery Drain

[gpounder]

I agree the OP has not really tested the system but that may be beyond his skill.

What is also missing from the thread is the battery size, he did say had lithium but is that his only set.

I also previously mentioned the batteries may not have been fully charged to start. Just checking the voltage can fool you if you do this during a charge. The battery must sit without a load for a couple hours to do a static voltage check. Another sign a battery is fully charged is watching the current drop during the charge cycle. Once the current drops and stay there for while it is likely charged. In the case of lithium the current will drop to near zero. A lead acid to just a few amps. But that is not full proof either as a bad battery may also not take a charge and look charged if just measuring current. A flooded lead acid battery can also be check with a specific gravity tested, that turkey baster with a float in it.

Too often I hear someone say they ran the generator for an hour and think the battery is full, probably not.

[shane wood]

Originally Posted by Massanutten

Thanks for responding. Four wires on Negative post . I turned of each breaker and checked the volts and it remained the same.

The inverter was off no lights and fridge was still on it's an LG with built in inverter or so it says on the door but Its plugged into a regular outlet but has power when everything else is off.

I going to buy a digital volt meter mine bounces a few degrees

Thanks I am not electrical inclined but going to go at this until my appointment.
Jim

Tomorrow I an going to take off each wire attached to the battery until it goes off

Your invertor must be hooked to the batteries bypassing the switch if turned off that alone will drain your battery

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP

I just went through this whole thread again and what stands out is the OP has yet to try Winemaker2's suggestion to use an ammeter to find out where the current is going. It would also show what if any charge current is happening and if that's being interrupted for some reason. A battery cutoff switch may alleviate the storage discharge issue but the OP is having a problem when in use too. There's more to this than a cutoff switch would solve.

One can hand it off to a "shop" to figure out but they may not test everything the way the end user is operating it. The simple act of putting a $20 meter inline and watching the system while in use will speak volumes to why things are not operating as desired. One can repeatedly guess and try different solutions and even a blind squirrel may find an acorn, but it's a lot quicker and more accurate to diagnose rather than guess.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Unless I misread the OP is not electrically inclined and likely doesn't have the test equipment to check things out properly. We can explain till the cows come home but this really should be a simple and blatantly obvious current drain. Draining a large, or mutliple large batteries in short order means serious current drain or seriously bad batteries. Since he has installed new ones, I suspect misrouted electrical, like a fridge inverter constantly drawing say 5 amps or so.

Pretty much ALL electrical should go through the cutoff switch. for the most part it's not like a modern vehicle that needs loads of memory power to keep learned adaptives and such.

If a shop can't find a draw like this in under an hour or two the customer needs to find another shop.

[Massanutten]

I did charge both Battleborns to 100% but you are correct both voltage meters were set to wrong setting and melted inside. I have two more batteries on order and dropped off Thursday off at a service center. Between the converter,inverter , solar and sizing this is way out of my wheelhouse. I gave it a shot but better let someone that knows take a look.
My plan was to get it to the point I did not need to worry about the fridge and use things , limited but I am use to having a motorhome and did not research enough before purchasing.

Thanks for the input I will post the results from the dealer/service center.

[dpinvidic]

On my motorhome, there were a couple of thing connected directly before the cut-off switch. so pulling the cut-off, still allowed a small drain.

One way to test for low amp draw (not ultra low) is to use a 12v test light.
Disconnect the battery pack ground (so all batteries are disconnected from RV)
Then se the test light to complete the open ground circuit.
You need to look for a faint glow in the bulb....if it glows, there is current draw.

On my motorhome, .the Inverter is connected DIRECTLY to the batteries. it has almost 1amp drain just to power the remote panel.

Some rigs have a "Desulfator" connected across the batteries, which pulses the batteries during float charge. You may have this and it might be a problem.

Just because the dealer says "It looks fine", that is different than verifying every single load drawing item is disconnected.

[n6medjim]

Batteries, DC voltage, solar charging, et al: boatloads of bum info and just plain ole' BS "out there."


Lead acid batteries (ALL of 'em) self-discharge over time. Crap on top of the batteries (dirt mixed with bubbled over electrolyte during charging) provide "sneak paths" that exacerbate self-discharge. Some house supply systems keep somethings like propane leak sensors connected full time (bypassing the batt cutt-off switch.

Two sources I STRONGLY URGE you to read before going any further:

https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ging-puzzle-2/
(I learned a world of info from the author. You will NOT go wrong from what he offers.)


AND


www.batteryuniversity.com


That'll teach you everything you need to know about batteries, flooded cell lead acid, sealed lead acid ("SLA"), advanced glass matrix ("AGM"), Lithium Ion ("Li-ion"), etc. You also need to read up on the differences between true deep discharge, "marine deep-discharge starting", and starting (common automotive) batteries. The differences are of paramount importance in a discussion re RV "house batteries."


There ya go ....

Originally Posted by Massanutten

I have a new Pinecrest and have more problems. After I put in storage between trips I turn everything off and use pull the battery cut off switch. Its new type that you turn in the off position and pull out. When I back to go on another trip I have a dead battery, overtime. I use my jumper box so I can use the jacks hook up and go. My the time we get to the campground I have a full charge. I ask the dealer to look at it and he says its just fine , nothing wrong. I had checked the battery and it had no water in any cell. So I filled.
I took it to him a second time after adding water and again nothing wrong.
I decided to install a Lithium Batteryborn battery and aging I go to leave and dead battery . I double checked and the battery cut off switch is out , nothing on.

I have just ordered and received 4 solar panels (GoPower)and controller and hope to have installed soon. The question is how do I start looking for what is drawing the battery down. I an talking three days in-between trips. I installed the Battery and have a second one to install. I triple checked the installation to make sure everything was connected as before.
I do not want to add Solar before I can figure out what is drawing the battery down. The dealer said the propane detector would do it along with other small lights. I just don't think in three days anything could be drawing down the battery
that quick again the switch is out of the socket
How do I check , especially with a dead battery ??

I have the solar set up and charging the dead battery at home on Lithium setting and seems to be charging just fine.

The dealer said human error most likely. I have given up on them at this point.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by dpinvidic

On my motorhome, there were a couple of thing connected directly before the cut-off switch. so pulling the cut-off, still allowed a small drain.

One way to test for low amp draw (not ultra low) is to use a 12v test light.
Disconnect the battery pack ground (so all batteries are disconnected from RV)
Then se the test light to complete the open ground circuit.
You need to look for a faint glow in the bulb....if it glows, there is current draw.

On my motorhome, .the Inverter is connected DIRECTLY to the batteries. it has almost 1amp drain just to power the remote panel.

Some rigs have a "Desulfator" connected across the batteries, which pulses the batteries during float charge. You may have this and it might be a problem.

Just because the dealer says "It looks fine", that is different than verifying every single load drawing item is disconnected.

As far as testing for amperage draw using a test light, it will likely be ok on basic travel trailers and 5th wheels. It "might" be ok on a motorhome if you're only testing the "coach" section of the 12v electricals. I will assure you trying this on a modern car or truck is a definite no-no. Just about everything electrical these days is run through a module that draws constant 12V power and does require a routine of sorts to fall into sleep mode. Sleep mode is when the circuit is practically drawing no power at all, but it can take some modules all the way up to 45 minutes to enter that mode.

I know this may seem off-subject for an RV forum, but I wouldn't want people using this info and make an erroneous test that could even damage things. As far as I know this has not started to happen on RV 12V electrical systems but with the new rigs having interconnected controllers that marry to the tow vehicles I am sure some degree of module memory exists and will falsify test results.

[hoofbreath]

[QUOTE=Mark_K5LXP;5438471]Why do you need a warning label on a hair dryer not to use it in the bathtub?


What I can’t use it in the bathtub?

[hoofbreath]

Maybe it’s time to go back to using motels that have night clerks and maintenance in the middle of the night. Just kidding I love my Winnebago. Not Covid germs

BTW My stereo amp was the constant draw.I put a switch on that wire.

[Flyct]

Lots of chatter about discharging battery with factory battery disconnect switched. Parasitic drain is the culprit. Very normal on newer units.

My 2017 Grand Design Reflection 5th wheel will drain my battery in less than a week with the factory switch turned off.

So I installed a quality marine cutoff switch the the front compartment https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MMC914/ directly disconnecting the battery ground. Also bought some cables from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BXXNMBJ/ to make the installation easy and whenever it’s in the storage facility I turn off that switch. That fixed the issue.

[rickyracer]

Disconnect battery,if it still drains battery is problem.if drain goes away we need to know amps not volts of draw.most lp smoke detectors are always on ,even if master switch is off.i have been doing this 40 years.it is a fixable problem.just need more info.

[gpounder]

The real problem with the so called "House disconnect switch" is the misunderstanding of what it does.

For most RV's it turns off all the lights and 12 volt systems that are apparent, designed for you to use when your gone for a while (afternoon to several days).

It is not always designed as a battery disconnect.

Consider this: I want the residential fridge to keep working and the inverter needs to be powered up to do that. Maybe I want the Satellite system to stay working to record my TV shows. Since safety is a concern, alarms, keyless locks and detectors should work and yes the memory in your radio needs power too.

[bobfrommaine]

I believe the refrigerator will run on AC when it's available, DC when not. This is why it is "plugged in to an outlet". It will draw a fair amount of current when not plugged into shore power. I read that you have 4 wires connected to the negative battery terminal. This shows very poor engineering on the part of the installer. In many years of boat building and repair, I limit the # of wires to one! If multipe wires need to be connected to the negative terminal I use a buss bar for the multi negatives and run one single large wire to the battery negative terminal. It may work on now, but when you need to replace the battery, you'll have a jumble of wires and no idea where they need to be connected. Also it makes disconnecting the battery a pain as it is always best to remove the negative wire, having to remove 4 wires is a recipe for confusion.
Using a clamp-on current probe (available for $89 at NAPA) and a decent digital multimeter should help you determine where the current is going.
Bob '14 Winnebago 37F Adventurer; Jeep toad.

[AnotherMike]

Quote below is trimmed...

Originally Posted by n6medjim

Two sources I STRONGLY URGE you to read before going any further:

https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ging-puzzle-2/
(I learned a world of info from the author. You will NOT go wrong from what he offers.)

AND

www.batteryuniversity.com

That'll teach you everything you need to know about batteries, flooded cell lead acid, sealed lead acid ("SLA"), advanced glass matrix ("AGM"), Lithium Ion ("Li-ion"), etc. You also need to read up on the differences between true deep discharge, "marine deep-discharge starting", and starting (common automotive) batteries. The differences are of paramount importance in a discussion re RV "house batteries."

There ya go ....

The HandyBob writeups... (all of them) should be required reading for anybody that is going to go solar (or has solar).

One more source...

I suggest that you download and read the writeup called "The 12 volt side of life".
There are 2 versions out there - one version is a single long PDF and the other version is a pair of PDFs titled "Part 1" and "Part 2".
Part 1: The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
Part 2: The 12volt Side of Life Part 2

Personally, I started with "The 12 volt side of life", then the HandyBob web site (and that took two evenings to get through), and I use the Battery University web site as a reference....

Mike