Best 5th Wheel for F-250 Diesel

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

He's got a derated F350. Should be fine.

Uh....No! He's got a F250 with 2325 lbs of payload capacity. You can call it whatever you want to, but the facts are the facts.

[Bamaman]

My F250 crewcab diesel has me limited to a mid size fifth wheel. My tow max is 13,200 despite having an OEM max weight suspension with helper springs.

I went for a Grand Design Reflection 323BHS that weighs 11k lbs. with a 2k lb. kingpin weight. I am max'd out vs. The specifications, however I am not experiencing any squat. And at 36 ft. !ong with 4 slides, we have everything we will ever need in a RV. I have had no issues with my trailer other than replacing the kitchen faucet. And we are very satisfied with our choice.

[JIMNLIN]

I do confess, I am a rookie at all this and naively thought the only difference between the 250 & 350 was the suspension.

If your F250 6.7 diesel truck has the heavy service package or camper special package it has the same exact axle/suspension as the F350 srw with the 11500 gvwr/7000 rawr. If it doesn't then it has the same axle/suspension as the F350 srw with the 6340 rawr.
Spend some time on several of the many Ford diesel websites. Those guys live specs and part numbers and know where the difference or the same as lays.

So now I have this brand new beautiful truck that I can't "legally" at least pull what I would like.
and
My reason for choosing this one is that the hitch weight is only 1,595 lbs and the GVWR being 10,130 lbs. Both of these is well within my "legal" limits.

legal limits are axle/tire load limits
Biscuit has it right....GVWR isn't used in any legal sense for how much the truck can legally/safely carry nor will it be used in any civil lawsuit in a court of law. Nor is the gvwr based payload used for any legal issues.
Just stay under Fords rawr/tire load rating.

example how silly the payload sticker can be is Fords F350 srw truck can have a 10000 gvwr (same as the F250) or the same exact truck with a 11300 gvwr. Both trucks are mechanically identical from the ground up..... but the 10k truck has a 2480 lb payload sticker and the 11.2k model has a 3680 payload sticker. Just one example of why the gvwr or its payload isn't used in any court of law or used by dot as the trucks legal load limit.

[325BH]

So... you will experience two groups of people in here: the weight/sticker police and those who can evaluate the differences (or lack thereof) between an F250 and an F350 SRW.

The 10,000 GVWR of your truck is a “paper” rating to keep it a class 2 truck. All 3/4 tons are like that.

Knowing that, what you should pay attention to is your front and rear GAWRs. As long as you don’t exceed those you will be fine.

If you want to dig even deeper, you can find how close your truck is to an F350 SRW and go by its numbers. I have not researched the current generation of SuperDuty trucks, however my 2016 F250 with the Camper Package (which gives it the factory overload spring) is identical to an F350 SRW. I have done both visual and parts-counter research.

The most important thing to check is the weight rating of your tires. You definitely want to stay at or below that.

With this info, I’m sure you will find you have more room than you thought.

I will sit back and enjoy the panic I have now caused to the sticker police. They will be replying soon, stating you will spill blood all over the highways, taking out babies, puppies and unicorns along the way. Oh yeah, let’s not forget you will be thrown in jail for violating numerous non-existing laws. 🤣

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by xrated

Uh....No! He's got a F250 with 2325 lbs of payload capacity. You can call it whatever you want to, but the facts are the facts.

Go look up fleet specs.

[Chris n Erin]

Wow! You have given me alot here. Thanks so much for the info. I will do my do diligence on running these numbers and see what I can actually pull.

[Chris n Erin]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, my truck has the FX4 off-road and camper package.

[Chris n Erin]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

If your F250 6.7 diesel truck has the heavy service package or camper special package it has the same exact axle/suspension as the F350 srw with the 11500 gvwr/7000 rawr. If it doesn't then it has the same axle/suspension as the F350 srw with the 6340 rawr.

Spend some time on several of the many Ford diesel websites. Those guys live specs and part numbers and know where the difference or the same as lays.





legal limits are axle/tire load limits

Biscuit has it right....GVWR isn't used in any legal sense for how much the truck can legally/safely carry nor will it be used in any civil lawsuit in a court of law. Nor is the gvwr based payload used for any legal issues.

Just stay under Fords rawr/tire load rating.



example how silly the payload sticker can be is Fords F350 srw truck can have a 10000 gvwr (same as the F250) or the same exact truck with a 11300 gvwr. Both trucks are mechanically identical from the ground up..... but the 10k truck has a 2480 lb payload sticker and the 11.2k model has a 3680 payload sticker. Just one example of why the gvwr or its payload isn't used in any court of law or used by dot as the trucks legal load limit.

Will do. Yes my truck has the FX4 off road and camper package.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Chris n Erin

Will do. Yes my truck has the FX4 off road and camper package.

Wow, a lot of post on here since I last looked!
So differences between 250/2500 and 350/3500 are mostly suspension, 250/2500 stock with softer suspension, but many opt for heavy tow and camper packages. These will not increase the GVWR of a 250/2500 above 10,000#. You will come out with very much the same truck as a 350/3500.
See many that state through a set of bags on it and go to go, well with the tow and camper packages, you may not need bags as you have stronger springs usually the same as 350/3500.

No bags on this package, the 5er in the picture weighed in about 11,500# when picture was taken, has a GVWR of 12,360#, pin running about a 2,400# pin. The TV only exceeds GVWR.

Just so we are clear this rig is not an Interstate rig with nice wide lanes, no it is a state highway hauler, we run these roads at the posted 55 or a bit better (60+) depending on the flow of traffic.

[chunker]

I'll weigh in my opinion and experience. In 2011 as I was nearing retirement, I figured I wanted a toy-hauler to travel, and safely and cleanly, carry the motorcycle. I ran across a pretty good deal on a used 2010 F-250 4wd CC and bought it. I was all set up so I thought. Then the end of 11 I found a used, almost new, 2011 Keystone Raptor 300mp, 35.5' dual axle 5th wheel, that I bought. Had the dealer install a hitch and off I went.

That's when the reality of UVW, GVW, CCC, and a whole bunch of alphabet letters raised their ugly head and I realized that even though the power train could handle the load, I was "under-trucked" some. With some consternation I decided to fix it and ordered a 2012 Ram 3500 4wd CC dually and now I really was OK and set up.

Lessons??? Make sure your RV and TV match. DON'T buy one without making sure they compliment each other. I went backwards and paid a financial price for it. DO pay attention to legal and published load carrying numbers. In my travels I see stuff that makes me cringe. Example this summer in norther CA along the coast was a triple axle toy-hauler being towed by a SRW 3/4 ton Ford. Typically a triple axle TH is 42'+- with a GVWR of 20,000# +-. No 3/4 T truck is rated to tow that load. I guess some people don't care about safety or common sense.

Impulse buys tend to hurt us. If a person wants to get a 40' 5th wheel they really should be looking at the 1T dually diesel trucks out there. But sometimes that may not be enough and it takes a MDT to handle the load. A couple years ago when I was in a park in Tucson, there was a 5th wheel parked next to me that had no one home so never did see the TV. After a couple days I realized something was different and saw that it was a double axle dually 5th wheel, 8 tires. I don't remember the brand, there wasn't a sticker on the left front for weights, and someone told me it was a high end custom design, but that trailer mush have been really heavy and I suspect a MDT or HDT used to pull it.

Have a good pull.

[Butch50]

Originally Posted by drwwicks

I'll weigh in my opinion and experience. In 2011 as I was nearing retirement, I figured I wanted a toy-hauler to travel, and safely and cleanly, carry the motorcycle. I ran across a pretty good deal on a used 2010 F-250 4wd CC and bought it. I was all set up so I thought. Then the end of 11 I found a used, almost new, 2011 Keystone Raptor 300mp, 35.5' dual axle 5th wheel, that I bought. Had the dealer install a hitch and off I went.

That's when the reality of UVW, GVW, CCC, and a whole bunch of alphabet letters raised their ugly head and I realized that even though the power train could handle the load, I was "under-trucked" some. With some consternation I decided to fix it and ordered a 2012 Ram 3500 4wd CC dually and now I really was OK and set up.

Lessons??? Make sure your RV and TV match. DON'T buy one without making sure they compliment each other. I went backwards and paid a financial price for it. DO pay attention to legal and published load carrying numbers. In my travels I see stuff that makes me cringe. Example this summer in norther CA along the coast was a triple axle toy-hauler being towed by a SRW 3/4 ton Ford. Typically a triple axle TH is 42'+- with a GVWR of 20,000# +-. No 3/4 T truck is rated to tow that load. I guess some people don't care about safety or common sense.

Impulse buys tend to hurt us. If a person wants to get a 40' 5th wheel they really should be looking at the 1T dually diesel trucks out there. But sometimes that may not be enough and it takes a MDT to handle the load. A couple years ago when I was in a park in Tucson, there was a 5th wheel parked next to me that had no one home so never did see the TV. After a couple days I realized something was different and saw that it was a double axle dually 5th wheel, 8 tires. I don't remember the brand, there wasn't a sticker on the left front for weights, and someone told me it was a high end custom design, but that trailer mush have been really heavy and I suspect a MDT or HDT used to pull it.

Have a good pull.

Most likely what you saw was a Newmar trailer as for a few years they had a tandem axle dual wheel setup. I looked at a new one one time. Really nice rig.

Here is a youtube of one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODqMxkcLpCQ

[SkiSmuggs]

You can pull anything an F350 can pull because the trucks are the same except for the rear suspension. That 10,000 lb GVWR can be had on an F350 as well, but it is only a paper rating as stated. So the camper package equips the F250 just like an F350. You can add Helwig springs, Supersprings, Sumosprings, Timbrens or airbags which increases payload, but doesn't change the door jamb sticker at all. The Jayco you are looking at should be fine as it is one of Jayco's light "half-ton" (BS) series, but should be fine with a 3/4 ton.
With an SRW, you should be good to 15,000 lbs, but 10-12,000 lbs is even better. Once you get your Jayco hooked up, you can evaluate whether you need to beef the suspension or not. I added Sumosprings to my F350 just to reduce sway in turns.

[Chris n Erin]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

OK............you have the 250 with a 10,000 GVWR
Door Jamb Yellow sticker lists 2325# Cargo carrying capacity----that is correct for YOUR specific truck/trim level (Yellow Stickers are vehicle specific)

Now lets get down to REAL Numbers
Truck GVWR -----------------------------------10,000#
Truck/Trailer Combined GCVWR --------------22,500#
Truck FAWR ------------------------------------ 5,200#
Truck RAWR ----------------------------------- 6,340#
Payload ---------------------------------------- 2,325#

Base weight (10,000 MINUS 2325#) -------- 7,675# (includes 150# driver and 20# cargo)
Base Rear Axle weight ------------------------ 2,795# (3545# before reaching RAWR)

So realistically you can handle up to 13,000# 5th wheel with a 2800# pin weight
YES you will exceed the trucks GVWR
Yes you will exceed the trucks 'payload' number

BUT you will not be exceeding the trucks RAWR, Rear Tire Max Load Ratings or trucks FAWR


'Legal'
There are NO laws about being 'over weight' on GVWR----Axle Ratings are what dictate legality
GVWRs are Class of Vehicle for registering purposes--------can be registered for 12K if you want

Don't exceed Trucks RAWR, Don't exceed Trucks Rear Tire MAX Load Ratings, Don;t exceed truck/trailers GCVWR

So if truck loaded up weighs 10,000# and GVWR is 22,500# then a 12,500# GVWR 5th wheel would max you out.......22% pin weight would be 2750#
RAWR/Rear Tire Loads and GCVWR would NOT be exceeded.........so you would be 'legal'

Jayco makes a decent rig and has good support....course that depends on specific dealer also

Old-Biscuit,

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and experience. I have now weighed my truck and was hoping to make sense of all these numbers.

- Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) = 6,340
- Rear Gross Axle Weight (RGAW) = 3,060
- Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) = 7,640 (w/o factoring any additional weight, i.e. driver/passengers, hitch weight etc.)
- Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 10,000
- Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 23,500
- Max Trailer Weight = 15,400; fleet.ford.com states 14,700

So my questions are:

1. How do I determine based off the numbers stated on any given fifth wheel whether or not I would be exceeding my RGAWR and tire ratings?
2. The GCWR seems pretty straight forward. That is simply the max. wt. that my truck + trailer + everything else should never exceed correct?
3. In the numbers you ran above, you stated for the base rear axle weight, "2,795# (3545# before reaching RAWR)" How did you get this and what does it mean?
4. With dealerships not stating on their websites what the max payload is on any given truck, is there a way of determing this elsewhere?

**So I have been giving serious consideration to trading in my truck I have for the 350 SRW but knowing what I know now, I want to know what the max payload is and RGAW. I don't see how I can obtain these #'s w/o looking at the sticker in the door and physically weighing the truck on a scale to obtain the RGAW. I have also thought about the DRW but other than pulling a fiver with it, does not seem very practical for much else where the SRW is. As I stated in my original post, when I get transferred this upcoming July, my family and I will be living in our RV so I need to get something that wil be practical for that. Appreciate your advice and feedback.**

Chris

[Chris n Erin]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

OK............you have the 250 with a 10,000 GVWR
Door Jamb Yellow sticker lists 2325# Cargo carrying capacity----that is correct for YOUR specific truck/trim level (Yellow Stickers are vehicle specific)

Now lets get down to REAL Numbers
Truck GVWR -----------------------------------10,000#
Truck/Trailer Combined GCVWR --------------22,500#
Truck FAWR ------------------------------------ 5,200#
Truck RAWR ----------------------------------- 6,340#
Payload ---------------------------------------- 2,325#

Base weight (10,000 MINUS 2325#) -------- 7,675# (includes 150# driver and 20# cargo)
Base Rear Axle weight ------------------------ 2,795# (3545# before reaching RAWR)

So realistically you can handle up to 13,000# 5th wheel with a 2800# pin weight
YES you will exceed the trucks GVWR
Yes you will exceed the trucks 'payload' number

BUT you will not be exceeding the trucks RAWR, Rear Tire Max Load Ratings or trucks FAWR


'Legal'
There are NO laws about being 'over weight' on GVWR----Axle Ratings are what dictate legality
GVWRs are Class of Vehicle for registering purposes--------can be registered for 12K if you want

Don't exceed Trucks RAWR, Don't exceed Trucks Rear Tire MAX Load Ratings, Don;t exceed truck/trailers GCVWR

So if truck loaded up weighs 10,000# and GVWR is 22,500# then a 12,500# GVWR 5th wheel would max you out.......22% pin weight would be 2750#
RAWR/Rear Tire Loads and GCVWR would NOT be exceeded.........so you would be 'legal'

Jayco makes a decent rig and has good support....course that depends on specific dealer also

Old-Biscuit,

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and experience. I have now weighed my truck and was hoping to make sense of all these numbers.

- Front Gross Axle Weight (RGAW) = 4,600
- Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) = 6,340
- Rear Gross Axle Weight (RGAW) = 3,060
- Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) = 7,640 (w/o factoring any additional weight, i.e. driver/passengers, hitch weight etc.)
- Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 10,000
- Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 23,500
- Max Trailer Weight = 15,400; fleet.ford.com states 14,700

So my questions are:

1. How do I determine based off the numbers stated on any given fifth wheel whether or not I would be exceeding my RGAWR and tire ratings?
2. The GCWR seems pretty straight forward. That is simply the max. wt. that my truck + trailer + everything else should never exceed correct?
3. In the numbers you ran above, you stated for the base rear axle weight, "2,795# (3545# before reaching RAWR)" How did you get this and what does it mean?
4. With dealerships not stating on their websites what the max payload is on any given truck, is there a way of determing this elsewhere?

**So I have been giving serious consideration to trading in my truck I have for the 350 SRW but knowing what I know now, I want to know what the max payload is and RGAW. I don't see how I can obtain these #'s w/o looking at the sticker in the door and physically weighing the truck on a scale to obtain the RGAW. I have also thought about the DRW but other than pulling a fiver with it, does not seem very practical for much else where the SRW is. As I stated in my original post, when I get transferred this upcoming July, my family and I will be living in our RV so I need to get something that wil be practical for that. Appreciate your advice and feedback.**

Chris