Best 5th Wheel for F-250 Diesel

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by Chris n Erin

Question for you Cumminsfan. If I were to purchase a 5th wheel in the loaded range of 11K with a pin weight of 2200 lbs., I would still then have to factor in the weight of Wife, kids & myself plus cargo and hitch weight correct? I have estimated all that to be 1,000 lbs. so if I am understanding this correctly, that would put me at approximately 3,200 lbs. correct?

You're correct. And thats too much IMO. 3/4 ton diesels are better suited for smaller lighter 5th wheels or longer heavier TT's.

[SkiSmuggs]

Originally Posted by Chris n Erin

That would suit us fine but I just need to make sure my truck can handle the load, both pulling and stopping. Thanks for your time.

You can pull and stop the same loads as an F350. It's the same drive train and brakes. That isn't the issue. The issue is payload which is loaded pin weight and you passengers and cargo.

[raineman]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

Yep, we pulled the 350 (5.7) from my old 94 gmc a while back, bored it .030 over, new flat head pistons, a mild .425 life cam, new valves and of course pistons, a Holly 650 carb and headers. But we couldn't change the hp and torque rating. It can't be done and its all in our mind.

I am sure you built a beast. But, once again apples and oranges. This is the 2nd time I have seen you make this reference about increasing towing capacity. It just is not the same thing as a hot rod.

Please remember, the OP is seeking practical advice on towing safely. This does not help them one bit.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by raineman

I am sure you built a beast. But, once again apples and oranges. This is the 2nd time I have seen you make this reference about increasing towing capacity. It just is not the same thing as a hot rod.

Please remember, the OP is seeking practical advice on towing safely. This does not help them one bit.

The point is, modifications can and do increase the capability of something. Whether it is a hotrod or a truck, there are things that can be done to increase the capability of a truck.
Yes, the little yellow sticker remains stuck in some heads, however that doesn’t mean a mod doesn’t change things.

Some people may not know their truck very well and rely solely on the stickers. Others many know their truck inside and out and know what mods can do and safety add capability to their TV.

The 3/4 ton vs 1-ton SRW (certain years/certain configurations) is such a classic debate because they are in fact the EXACT SAME TRUCK with nothing more than a sticker and badge differentiating them (again, certain years/certain configurations).

If for example, you have two trucks identical in every way except the hitch. One has 1,500 lbs greater towing capacity than the other. If you install the stronger hitch on the other truck, they are now identical and have the same abilities. No, the sticker didn’t change, but that doesn’t mean the truck hasn’t been improved.

People have been modifying their rides since the model T. Towing is not immune from mods that improve capabilities.

[CWSWine]

There is several camps here: One the believes that GVWR is really not rating that doesn’t have to be followed -or- people that believe that the “Federal Compliance Sticker” on your truck should be followed including the GVWR listed on it.

The legal issue is address here on national site that bases their findings in fact and legal opinion. Here is the link.

Personal Vehicle Towing Liability for RV’ers — PersonalInjuryClaimsBlawg

Then there is the manufacture official stand on going over GVWR and here link to GM says about going over GVWR

Understanding Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - GMC Life

Here just some guy talking about the GVWR on trucks and has some good information.

Trailer and RV Weight Demystified

Decisions should be made with verifiable facts not just believe me or because someone of forum staid it that you be fine exceed your truck ratings. The article above has some of the best advice I have seen and says and I quote:

“One of the smartest things we did was speak to our attorney before making a purchase. He informed us that exceeding any of the weight ratings of the RV or the tow vehicle was nothing more than a negligence lawsuit waiting to happen.”

My visit to attorney and talking to retire judge matches the quote above.

There are several other places you can read that says not to exceed your GVWR like the various truck towing guides and you trucks owners manual. Now you have additional information and who you want believe is up to you.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

There is several camps here: One the believes that GVWR is really not rating that doesn’t have to be followed -or- people that believe that the “Federal Compliance Sticker” on your truck should be followed including the GVWR listed on it.

The legal issue is address here on national site that bases their findings in fact and legal opinion. Here is the link.

Personal Vehicle Towing Liability for RV’ers — PersonalInjuryClaimsBlawg

Then there is the manufacture official stand on going over GVWR and here link to GM says about going over GVWR

Understanding Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - GMC Life

Here just some guy talking about the GVWR on trucks and has some good information.

Trailer and RV Weight Demystified

Decisions should be made with verifiable facts not just believe me or because someone of forum staid it that you be fine exceed your truck ratings. The article above has some of the best advice I have seen and says and I quote:

“One of the smartest things we did was speak to our attorney before making a purchase. He informed us that exceeding any of the weight ratings of the RV or the tow vehicle was nothing more than a negligence lawsuit waiting to happen.”

My visit to attorney and talking to retire judge matches the quote above.

There are several other places you can read that says not to exceed your GVWR like the various truck towing guides and you trucks owners manual. Now you have additional information and who you want believe is up to you.

There is a third camp. I understand the GVWR, however it is undisputed fact that the GVWR on some (many) 3/4 ton trucks is a paper rating and not the actual engineered safe rating. In many cases the 3/4-ton is the EXACT same truck as the 1-ton SRW. Because of this, it is obvious the GVWR is not an absolute. There are times it is totally bogus and is set for truck-classification purposes. Hell, you can even get a 1-ton SRW with a reduced GVWR if you want. Trust me, they aren’t making you a special truck in those cases. It is all about the truck classification. (GVWR of 10k and less is a class 2 truck, whereas above 10k GVWR is a higher class.)

Because of all of this, the GAWR is a more critical rating to follow. Or in my case, I follow the GAWR of the truck I know mine is identical to. [emoji846]

The tires are always the absolute limit you don’t want to exceed.

[Chris n Erin]

So I asked someone before but never got an answer. How do I know if I am going to exceed my GAWR or tire ratings when shopping for fifth wheels? I get now to take the GVWR and multiply by 20% when calculating pin weight but still unsure about this whole GAWR and tire factor. Any clarification is much appreciated.

[Freqz]

Originally Posted by Chris n Erin

So I asked someone before but never got an answer. How do I know if I am going to exceed my GAWR or tire ratings when shopping for fifth wheels? I get now to take the GVWR and multiply by 20% when calculating pin weight but still unsure about this whole GAWR and tire factor. Any clarification is much appreciated.

The *best* way is to otherwise load your truck up for camping-- including passengers, and head off to the truck stop. After filling the tank, weigh the truck. (You don't need a trailer to use the scales) Figure 100% of the pin weight will be on the rear axle so just subtract your rear axle weight from the RAWR to get your max pin weight (plus hitch!) value .

If you don't have the truck yet you'll have to make some assumptions about weight and if you find yourself within a couple of hundred pounds of any rating you should really consider upsizing the truck or downsizing the trailer.

[Chris n Erin]

Thanks for the explanation. I weighed my truck before with a full tank of gas and it came out to 7,640 lbs. My RGAW = 3,060 and my RGAWR = 6,340 lbs. I estimated 1,000 lbs. of weight (on the high end) for hitch, cargo, and personnel putting my truck weight at 8,640 lbs. My max tongue weight (by yellow sticker) = 2,325 lbs.

So if I subtract my RGAW from my RGAWR, that leaves me 3,280 lbs. that I could theoretically put down on my rear axle without exceeding my RGAWR correct? That is 955 lbs. over my yellow sticker limit of 2,325.

With all that said, a 10K 5ver factoring a 20% hitch weight would equal 2,000 lbs. Adding afore stated CCC of 1,000 lbs. would put me at 3,000 lbs leaving me with 280 lbs to spare. So if I’m doing my math right and understanding all this, the very MAXIMUM weight trailer I can pull without exceeding my RGAWR would be a 10K 5ver fully loaded, NOT dry weight. Does this sound right to all you seasoned RV’rs?

[Chris n Erin]

How in the world are people pulling 40’ trailers and 14K lbs with 3/4 ton trucks? That would take you way over your RGAWR.

[Cumminsfan]

My RAWR is 6200 lbs. My GVWR is 9600 lbs. My door sticker CCC is 2176.
My 5th wheels UVW is 7315. Its dry pin (Per factory weighing) is 1385.
Loaded up for camping the 5er weighs about 9000 lbs and the pins around 1800 lbs.
After the scales my rear axle weight is 4800 lbs. My GVWR is 9800 lbs.
I'm under the RAWR by 1400 lbs, under tow rating buy 3400 lbs, under GCVWR by about 2000+ lbs.
I would have no trouble towing 10000 lbs and adding 300-400 lbs to my rear axle weight. I would be a little over 10,000 lbs on the GVW though.
Right now I can honestly say that I hardly feel my 5er behind me. Other than some intermittant chucking or slower accelerating and somewhat longer stopping (all normal) I don't see how 1,000 lbs more would make a bit of difference.
In your situation it looks like you need to look at 5th wheels with a dry weight around 8200-8500 lbs. Might want to look at the so called '1/2 ton' models. Most are comfortable enough for longer stays and would be under most of your ratings.
Interestingly my 5th wheel MFG does not tout my 5th wheel as a 1/2 ton towable type. They obviously know that thats just not a viable situation even though the dry weights would lead you to believe that.

[raineman]

Originally Posted by 325BH

The point is, modifications can and do increase the capability of something. Whether it is a hotrod or a truck, there are things that can be done to increase the capability of a truck.
Yes, the little yellow sticker remains stuck in some heads, however that doesn’t mean a mod doesn’t change things.

Some people may not know their truck very well and rely solely on the stickers. Others many know their truck inside and out and know what mods can do and safety add capability to their TV.

The 3/4 ton vs 1-ton SRW (certain years/certain configurations) is such a classic debate because they are in fact the EXACT SAME TRUCK with nothing more than a sticker and badge differentiating them (again, certain years/certain configurations).

If for example, you have two trucks identical in every way except the hitch. One has 1,500 lbs greater towing capacity than the other. If you install the stronger hitch on the other truck, they are now identical and have the same abilities. No, the sticker didn’t change, but that doesn’t mean the truck hasn’t been improved.

People have been modifying their rides since the model T. Towing is not immune from mods that improve capabilities.

The fact remains that it is not possible to increase the towing capacity of a tow vehicle. That was the only point I was trying to make

[Freqz]

Originally Posted by Chris n Erin

Thanks for the explanation. I weighed my truck before with a full tank of gas and it came out to 7,640 lbs. My RGAW = 3,060 and my RGAWR = 6,340 lbs. I estimated 1,000 lbs. of weight (on the high end) for hitch, cargo, and personnel putting my truck weight at 8,640 lbs. My max tongue weight (by yellow sticker) = 2,325 lbs.

So if I subtract my RGAW from my RGAWR, that leaves me 3,280 lbs. that I could theoretically put down on my rear axle without exceeding my RGAWR correct? That is 955 lbs. over my yellow sticker limit of 2,325.

With all that said, a 10K 5ver factoring a 20% hitch weight would equal 2,000 lbs. Adding afore stated CCC of 1,000 lbs. would put me at 3,000 lbs leaving me with 280 lbs to spare. So if I’m doing my math right and understanding all this, the very MAXIMUM weight trailer I can pull without exceeding my RGAWR would be a 10K 5ver fully loaded, NOT dry weight. Does this sound right to all you seasoned RV’rs?

So. Two limits here: RGAW and GVWR. You're bound by whichever one you run out of first.

Unless you want to figure that a 250 is really a 350 with a paper cut but I'm not taking a position on that either way

[raineman]

right?