Community Forums

balticblue · 12-07-2020, 05:00 PM

I was wondering if any 5th wheel manufacturer pays their work force an hourly wage or are they all paid by the job ( piecemeal ) ? .I am not interested in the high end custom builders but the run of the mill manufacturers. I wonder given the common complaints re quality why Manufacturers wouldn't consider paying their workers by the hour.Would this not improve the quality of their work or am i missing something. It seems to me a lay person, that paying someone by the piece rather than the hour is a receipe for disaster. I realize these manufacturers have " quality control" in house to catch the mistakes don't they ??? and then the dealers have someone to go over the unit with a fine tooth comb before it goes onto their lot for you and I to look at( maybe that is what they use based on the workmanship we see in a unit for sale on their lot lol ) Because they did it this way for 50 plus years doesn't mean it's the right way to do things. there have been a few new players in the field the last couple fo years but do things change that must Vanleigh, Paradign and a couple of others. it seems they just steal management from other established companies who bring their tired ways to manufacture their "NEW DESIGNS " but the quality remains the same . Am i wrong ? thanks for reading my vent !

MtCamper · 12-07-2020, 05:07 PM

I'm only familiar with the Northwood and the ORV lines. They both pay by the hour. One of the reasons they have limited production is because LaGrande is a small town and the workforce is also small. The up side is some of their employees are very long term. None the less, it's still a factory assembly line and some people don't care and others make mistakes.

TheLex · 12-07-2020, 05:31 PM

The Elkhorn, Indiana RV's are mostly crap quality. Lippert Industries owns most of the components that go into these RVs. The manufacturers actually more like assemblers. And these things are held together with staples! These things are just poorly built wood framing on a metal frame. The wiring is a substandard undersized mess. The plumbing is a mix of rubber hose and PEX fittings, which were never meant to go together. Hence the numerous complaints about leaking hose and fittings.

The Dometic and Norcold fridges work poorly and in very hot weather, are unable to maintain safe food temperatures without extensive modifications to improve their venting.

Every single systems component from the radio to the oven, are bottom of the barrel quality. Put it this way, if you were building a house, no way would it pass inspection.

TXiceman · 12-07-2020, 06:17 PM

When we talk to owners in our travels, it makes me thankful that we have among the last of the NuWa HitchHiker Champagne built. Very few problem in 7 plus years of full time.

If I was looking for another 5er, I think I would look at a Vanleigh Beacon.

Ken

Cumminsfan · 12-08-2020, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLex

The Elkhorn, Indiana RV's are mostly crap quality. Lippert Industries owns most of the components that go into these RVs. The manufacturers actually more like assemblers. And these things are held together with staples! These things are just poorly built wood framing on a metal frame. The wiring is a substandard undersized mess. The plumbing is a mix of rubber hose and PEX fittings, which were never meant to go together. Hence the numerous complaints about leaking hose and fittings.

The Dometic and Norcold fridges work poorly and in very hot weather, are unable to maintain safe food temperatures without extensive modifications to improve their venting.

Every single systems component from the radio to the oven, are bottom of the barrel quality. Put it this way, if you were building a house, no way would it pass inspection.

And no way would most people install or furnish their newly built homes with any of the junk RV's come with.

Cumminsfan · 12-08-2020, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

When we talk to owners in our travels, it makes me thankful that we have among the last of the NuWa HitchHiker Champagne built. Very few problem in 7 plus years of full time.

If I was looking for another 5er, I think I would look at a Vanleigh Beacon.

Ken

If I were looking to full time I'd buy your NuWa.

jdpm · 12-08-2020, 11:51 AM

Most the new stuff is the same ole rebadged junk.Nu Wa, Teton, Carriage/Lifestyle, and older DRV were better built rigs and exactly why I'm keeping what I have. FR Rivertstone us probably the only line that has some stand out in build features. Beacon, no. Pretty but same ole undercarriage.

jimcumminsw · 12-08-2020, 04:31 PM

Will the average cost of a new home in my local area is $288K which does not include most appliances. These will run you an additional $1,500 to $2,000 for them. So comparing an RV to a home in my opinion is not fair.

Yes, they the RV could use a higher level of components, but than everyone would be screaming the cost is to high. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

How many user are trying to purchase an RV for the lowest $$ amount, you get what you pay for.

rollondown · 12-08-2020, 07:04 PM

Luxe is the only "Production" line built type unit that at least was paying their employees hourly.

TXiceman · 12-08-2020, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

If I were looking to full time I'd buy your NuWa.

It "might" be for sale in a few more years. But for now, it keeps on rolling.

Ken

TheLex · 12-08-2020, 11:43 PM

Oh I realize a brick and mortar home is a different animal. But don't forget, the land is worth a lot. And that house will last 50 years or more. I doubt most of the new RVs (especially the fifth wheels and travel trailers) will last more than 10-15 yrs if that.

Think about it. A typical decent RV is about $50k for a fifth wheel. A 35 ft trailer would have about 300 sq ft. That comes out to $167 sq/ft, for something that lasts not much more than a decade. Yeah I'm not accounting for appliances and furniture and stuff.

The point is, the build standards is pathetically low. The high point of Class A motorhomes was 2003-2009. Those Class A's from companies like Beaver, Monaco, Country Coach, Travel Supreme, etc., even though the companies have gone out of business (due to the 2007 recession), are still in demand today because of their quality. I would daresay none of the current manufacturers today, can meet the quality of those company's products unless you spend well over $700k, and even those have issues.

If you want to take a look at what real quality looks like, browse the Australian travel trailer market. Those things have suspensions that can survive real off road travel, have modern looking interiors and appliances, and are generally much more aesthetic and better built. It's a sad state of affairs that exists today in the American RV industry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw

Will the average cost of a new home in my local area is $288K which does not include most appliances. These will run you an additional $1,500 to $2,000 for them. So comparing an RV to a home in my opinion is not fair.

Yes, they the RV could use a higher level of components, but than everyone would be screaming the cost is to high. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

How many user are trying to purchase an RV for the lowest $$ amount, you get what you pay for.

IC2 · 12-09-2020, 06:47 AM

Why worry about how an RV manufacturer pays help. It's not them but a company work ethic and rules that make up the quality of an RV. Most RVs built in the Elkhart, Indiana area are assembled by a significant number of the much vaunted Amish. They along with every other worker are there for one thing - a good paycheck, There is little if any company loyalty. If the builder down the road offers a few cents more - gone.

Then there are the materials - most have Lippert frames, axles along with many other items now owned by LCI, Dometic, Valterra and very few other manufacturers. The quality of these appliances is mediocre at best, poor is not out of the realm.

Bottom line and what all this boils down to is supply and demand. As long as buyers keep purchasing close to a half million RVs yearly and as long as there is no real regulatory and quality assurance system and standards, less then stellar quality will continue. RVIA = joke (https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/r...october-record)

balticblue · 12-09-2020, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IC2

Why worry about how an RV manufacturer pays help. It's not them but a company work ethic and rules that make up the quality of an RV. Most RVs built in the Elkhart, Indiana area are assembled by a significant number of the much vaunted Amish. They along with every other worker are there for one thing - a good paycheck, There is little if any company loyalty. If the builder down the road offers a few cents more - gone.

Then there are the materials - most have Lippert frames, axles along with many other items now owned by LCI, Dometic, Valterra and very few other manufacturers. The quality of these appliances is mediocre at best, poor is not out of the realm.

Bottom line and what all this boils down to is supply and demand. As long as buyers keep purchasing close to a half million RVs yearly and as long as there is no real regulatory and quality assurance system and standards, less then stellar quality will continue. RVIA = joke (https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/r...october-record)

sadly you are right and like boat manufacturers the fridges, fireplaces, microwaves, tires , axles brakes, with possibly the exception of the a/c units "most" manufacturers do use the same materials . it is too bad when there are regulatory bodies for most things there doesn't appear to be for RV/S . until that changes and people stop as you say purchasing mediocre products it won't change. I just thought if workers get paid hourly there wouldn't be pressure to bang out whatever their job is on the production line. Yes I'm sure the majority do care about their work but when you get paid based on how many cabinets you hang in a day -you can see where there is room for error.

IC2 · 12-09-2020, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by balticblue

sadly you are right and like boat manufacturers the fridges, fireplaces, microwaves, tires , axles brakes, with possibly the exception of the a/c units "most" manufacturers do use the same materials . it is too bad when there are regulatory bodies for most things there doesn't appear to be for RV/S . until that changes and people stop as you say purchasing mediocre products it won't change. I just thought if workers get paid hourly there wouldn't be pressure to bang out whatever their job is on the production line. Yes I'm sure the majority do care about their work but when you get paid based on how many cabinets you hang in a day -you can see where there is room for error.

FWIW, our '14 Montana is head and shoulders in build quality over the '06 Glendale Titanium which had a house built frame and all cabinetry. Glendale started down the bankruptcy slide when they, among other reasons, started using Lippert chassis in '09 . Canada isn't exempt from quality RV build problems if our Titanium was any indicator.