Factory Tours - Initial Impressions

[wingnut60]

aknavy,

"Heartland did have some nice little things that were unique to them - double slide seals,"

This might have been unique to the models you saw being built, but certainly not unique across the industry.

Thank you for some very insightful info on RV construction--you seem to have a background that lets you know what to look for? Some of the things you bring up, I would not have known to look for.
Joe

[aknavy]

They do have QC, and I did see evidence of it - the ones towards the end were marked for things to be repaired.

My only background for checking things out is a long history of not being willing to pay other people to fix stuff or remodel, so I've learned alot of things the hard way. In doing that, you tend to start noticing things that just don't look right! I fix my own vehicles, and I completely remodeled my last house.

As far as I can see, the cosmetics are pretty good across the board - what I'm more interested in is the structure underneath the make up, cause that's what will cause the issues down the road.

[Oldelevatorman]

Didn't take notes because we already owned one but was very impressed with the Outdoors RV tour in La Grande, Oregon. I'd venture to say if the OP had gone there he'd be interested in one of theirs. And Nash/Northwoods is in the same town. Both rated #1 in TT & FW Comparison guide by Randall Eaton since 2010 in the Above Average category!

[dayle1]

Originally Posted by racer4

.

I bought Cedar Creek mostly because of the hung wall construction. There are no laminated walls, so delamination is not possible.

!

Delamination is absolutely possible on your CC and every other trailer except Airstream and 100% fiberglass units like Scamp and Casita. Most delamination is not the wall components "disassembling", it is the lauan plywood backer board that the filon or gel coat skin is attached to. When this plywood gets wet and swells, the layers begin separating. The interior layer may stay bonded to the aluminum studs, but the outer layer and the skin pull away and are no longer attached except at edges, windows, etc. This is delamination and hung walls are just as susceptible as pinch roll and vacuum laminated walls, because they all use plywood backer for the fiberglass skin. I forgot, brands using
Adzel rather than fiberglass for the skin also won't delaminate as long as they don't use backer board.

[Oldelevatorman]

Outdoors has not had a delamination since they went to their new process a few years ago. Dayle 1, you have obviously not been to the Outdoors RV factory, and no Lippert frames!

[dayle1]

Originally Posted by Oldelevatorman

Outdoors has not had a delamination since they went to their new process a few years ago. Dayle 1, you have obviously not been to the Outdoors RV factory, and no Lippert frames!

Didn't mean to step on your toes, and yes I'm not familiar with their "new" process or their old process. But if you don't know what the process is in detail, you don't know IF delamination is possible either. And I didn't say any brand has a delamination problem. Only that IF they use plywood backer board ( which is needed to support the fiberglass skin) THEN delamination is POSSIBLE. Owners can take better care of their units the more they understand construction details and potential risks. Finally, most brands also use interior plywood panels and IF a leak happens, they can delaminate although they are easier to repair.

[Oldelevatorman]

You weren't stepping on my toes, someone who's toured the Outdoors factory with a better memory than I could maybe explain their new process as opposed to the old one.

[dayle1]

Originally Posted by Oldelevatorman

You weren't stepping on my toes, someone who's toured the Outdoors factory with a better memory than I could maybe explain their new process as opposed to the old one.

The answer is simple, what backer is used for the Fiberglass skin, Luan plywood or a composite? If plywood then it can delam. And these Rv manufacturers do not make the skin, it comes from a supplier with whatever backer they use. Stacks of skins come in on a flatbed trailer. Actually, delamination is rare with proper maintainence, I've owned 7 units over 45 yrs, different brands and never had a problem with plywood backer.

[jtbuilds]

Originally Posted by aknavy

Every factory says the same thing - we use Amish craftsmen, they're the best wood workers around, etc, etc. Actually, now that I think of it, Cedar Creek didn't say that. Also, Heartland and Jayco both claim alot of stuff they do is exclusive to them, yet most of it seems to be industry standard. I will say Hearland did have some nice little things that were unique to them - double slide seals, a little tab to keep the seal from folding over, a frame ledge for the wall to sit on, although I think Jayco had that for most of the frame as well.

Here's a link to a folder with Jayco pictures - not organized, and most aren't that great cause we couldn't get close:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...m8?usp=sharing

And Cedar Creek:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...00?usp=sharing

Thank You, great seeing the pictures.

Have you seen Carriage trailers? Cedar Creek looks to be using similar construction methods.
Alum in the Carriage is welded and good welds not like Jayco.
The thermal bridging in our Cameo (alum roof truss 16" OC) is really bad and the #6 screw used in the outside trim strips break off due to flexing.

An air hitch/pin box reduces the amount of flex.

[ac5501]

Here are pictures of my tour of the Lifestyle factory in April 2016, and pictures of the inspection at the LS factory liquidation auction in the summer of 2016. They are of most interest to Bay View - and Evergreen Texan - FW owners, but there are pics of other lifestyle, Bay Hill, Tesla Toy Hauler models under construction, and may be of interest to show some general LS construction techniques. Will also look to post these links in the LS/Evergreen owners section soon as well.

You DO NOT NEED to be a member of Facebook to view these, they are available to the general public.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=aab3e1985c

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=e2870403a2

[aknavy]

Originally Posted by jtbuilds

Thank You, great seeing the pictures.

Have you seen Carriage trailers? Cedar Creek looks to be using similar construction methods.
Alum in the Carriage is welded and good welds not like Jayco.
The thermal bridging in our Cameo (alum roof truss 16" OC) is really bad and the #6 screw used in the outside trim strips break off due to flexing.

An air hitch/pin box reduces the amount of flex.

Was considering looking into a used Carriage Carri-Lite, but have not actually looked at one. Are the problems serious, or are they more of an irritation?

[LarryW21]

What was that old saying...if you watch sausage made you'll never....something like that.

[aknavy]

^^^^^^

[schrederman]

Old Biscuit speaks true. They're all built that way because they're all paid that way.....