Fifth Wheel or not

[NeedToRetire]

I have hashed some of this issue out in bits and pieces on the forum, but I think its more focused now from what I’ve learned so far.

My wife and I are a few months from being retired. Years in advance, we had fantasized about a Fifth Wheel and traveling the USA . We’ve been campers our whole lives. Early years tents, then a pop-up and last was a clunker used class A we shared ownership with my parents, but that was years ago now.

When my truck in 2023 needed replaced, I bought a new Truck, a ¾ ton Ford SD with the plow & 5th wheel prep package & diesel engine, figuring it would cover all bases of plowing & towing our fantasy 5er when we did retire. Next, a Travel Trailer at a great price fell our way. My wife and I both thought, why not, let’s give the TT a try and see if we can get by with it? Keeping in mind, this was after years of focus on a Fifth Wheel. We bought used TT and have had it out on multiple trips last year. We have learned a lot and learned that as far as layout and space the 28’ TT with one slide is enough for us. It has some shortcomings, but If this was our only option, we would still enjoy the trips, but….

Here are some of the TT issues:

• Towing on windy days

• Storage lacking, especially for clothes for longer trips

• The setting up scissor jacks, boards, ramps & ect to get level

• Weight of the weight distribution hitch

• Connecting the torsion bar on the WD hitch

• Knowing as I age how all the above will only get worse

The end of the month, we leave for a 3 week trip to warmer places with the current TT. I plan on this trip being the trip to really analyze the viability of the TT for longer trips as this will be our longest yet by far. With just a few more months from work being done, we are feeling unsettled about the RV. Would the Fifth Wheel be the better choice for us and why wait? We know we only get one shot at retirement...

I have a ton of issues at play when it comes to thinking about upgrading to a 5er. One is the unfortunate discovery that the truck, though fifth wheel prepped, is way more limited than I had expected. I should have been shopping 5er weights prior to buying a truck years ago. Since that ship sailed, I now need to be looking at 5er’s at 10,000 LBS or under because of my payload/pin weights. In looking at many fifth wheels in our weight class, we are in the 29-32’ range and those with labels like “Lite, Super Lite, ¾ Towable & Such” All of those worry we as lite possibly equaling “Junk”

We live fairly remote, closest bigger city to us is 30-45 minutes away, but we have a RV dealer in our backyard that sells Keystone Brand RV’s “Cougars, Arcadia & Montana”. We’ve kicked the tire there on the Arcadia 292SLRL since it was on the lot. The layout and weight is in our sweet spot.

It was a long rehash to get here, but my main questions are:

• Is a Fifth Wheel that much better for towing, particularly on windy days? Or does the 5er suck on a windy day as well?

• Is setup a major advantage in time & effort in comparison to my TT ? The Auto leveling and such, I sure would think it would be way quicker and less work involved?

• Knowing all RV have build issues, What can people tell me about Arcadia’s reputation. They also sell the Cougar & Montana, but all the Keystone line.

• Because weight & build quality seemingly going hand in hand, do I just have to come to grips with the fact that a lighter weight 5er being cheaply built or does there exsist a quality built, lighter weight fifth wheel?

Your help is appreciated.

[RVfixit]

Hi- So I completely understand where you are coming from when trying to make the decision on what to do. I have had the pleasure of owning all three, that being a motorhome, TT and 5er. We settled on a 2016 Keystone Cougar that is just shy of 40' long so I jus refer to it as a 40'. Th 5er weighs in at about 12,100 lbs and fully loaded it weighs about 13,000 lbs with a pin weight of 1700 lbs.

I tow this with a 2014 Ford F250 Lariat Super Duty 4x4 with the 6.2 gas engine and 4.30 gears which I added when I ordered the truck. Adding the lower gears changed my factory towing capacity up to 15,100 lbs although I would never recommend pushing your truck to its towing limits. I also have the 5th wheel prep, HD towing package, etc. Gas mileage? Well, towing I average about 9 and around 7 if doing a lot of grade climbing. Unloaded I average around 14 due to the 6 speed automatic. The trailer has about 15k miles on it now and have never had any problems, even in windy conditions but that is really a judgement call. There are times I change my route depending on the weather.

Your diesel will perform better on grades and overall gas mileage due to the higher torque and 10 speed transmission but I'm surprised at the towing limits you have stated. When I look up a 2024 Ford F250 Super Duty with the diesel it shows a max towing capacity of 22,900 lbs with a payload capacity of 4,048 lbs (pin weight). That should be perfect for what you want to do.

The difference in towing? The 5er is much more stable in windy conditions because the hitch point is in front of the rear axle instead of being behind it which prevents most of the "wag" you would get with a TT even with sway control hitches.

Storage is drastically better with the 5er and with 3 slides, the space is two fold over a TT. If you do go with a 5er, I would recommend adding the second AC in the front bedroom if that is the floorplan you go with as the high point in the 5er tends to be warmer than the rest of the RV. The only thing I wish I had added was a generator but because of the pin weight, I decided not to add that.

Setup is much easier in my opinion with the 5er remote control system, auto level system and hooking and unhooking the 5th wheel plate. the rest of the peripherals are the same, the sewer, water and power although my 5er has the water and sewer controls panel inside one storage bin which is great. I think most do now.

Last, on the truck, I ended up adding suspension "air springs" which are just a rubber bellows that prevents that bouncing up and down on bumpy roads along with Bilstein Shocks.

My TT was great but its storage was limited and we wanted more amenities for longer trips. I hope this gives you a little insight into your decision and with others that may add there preferences on here, you will be able to make the best decision for your future travels. Good Luck with whatever you decide!

Safe Travels!

[MFL]

@ RVfixit: You said FW weight 13K pin wt 1,700. Seems light pin to me; did you maybe mean 2,700?

To the OP: Your truck is actually more capable than you are thinking. You don't need to shop for a Lite FW because of your class 2 10,000 GVWR 250. While a 350 badge on your fender ups the GVWR considerably, it is really very little different from your truck.

The diesel F250 is very capable, and by just adding airbags, just as much so, as the F350. With the same tires/wheels, as the 350, you can be looking at FWs with a GVWR of 14K, with beefier/better build quality.

[Lantley]

Here are some of the TT issues:
Towing on windy days
Storage lacking, especially for clothes for longer trips
The setting up scissor jacks, boards, ramps & ect to get level
Weight of the weight distribution hitch
Connecting the torsion bar on the WD hitch
Knowing as I age how all the above will only get worse

A fiver will eliminate all of your above issues.
Yes a fiver tows better and is more stable than your typical TT.
Yes your truck is a limiting factor in my book, but that is simply because I don't want to limit my selection of 5'ers.
If you find an fifth wheel that you like, built to last, that fits your truck,with ample cargo carrying capacity for long trips go for it. A 5th wheel will be an improvement.

[CecilD]

Yes, fifth wheels tow better than a travel trailer. The wind nor traffic have ever moved my fifth wheel at speed. The fifth wheel has zero sway. They would be easier to set up with auto level, however my rig doesn't have that so I still fuss with side to side leveling and jack blocks; probably not an improvement over your TT. A WDH is heavy but nothing compared to some fifth wheel hitches.

A travel trailer exerts bouncing forces on the truck. A fifth wheel, due to the high hitch design has chucking forces (back and forth) in addition to bouncing forces. Chucking is not prevalent in all rigs, and can be mitigated with a proper hitch.

You are going to have more steps to get into a 5er and a couple more inside if that is a problem. Due to the overhang and lack of a tongue, a 34' fifth wheel will tow at about the same overall length as your 28' TT. 5ers have high ceilings so it may be a problem to reach some cabinets without a stool. There will be more cubes in a 5er because of the high ceiling so more to heat and cool, but a feeling of spaciousness.

It used to be you could buy a light weight quality rig, but I think all the new ones are using the same construction techniques. Sounds like you want to buy new, a local dealer would be a plus for warranty stuff. I choose to buy used and have driven hundreds of miles for the right rig.

I also did the tent, pop-up, TT progression and now fifth wheel. It would be hard for me to go back. Good luck with your search.

[RVfixit]

Originally Posted by MFL

@ RVfixit: You said FW weight 13K pin wt 1,700. Seems light pin to me; did you maybe mean 2,700?

To the OP: Your truck is actually more capable than you are thinking. You don't need to shop for a Lite FW because of your class 2 10,000 GVWR 250. While a 350 badge on your fender ups the GVWR considerably, it is really very little different from your truck.

The diesel F250 is very capable, and by just adding airbags, just as much so, as the F350. With the same tires/wheels, as the 350, you can be looking at FWs with a GVWR of 14K, with beefier/better build quality.

No, the actual spec for that year was 1690 lbs pin weight unloaded and is one of the reasons I purchased it since I do have an F250. The newer ones are heavier, especially with the front living room.

[NeedToRetire]

Originally Posted by CecilD

It used to be you could buy a light weight quality rig, but I think all the new ones are using the same construction techniques. Sounds like you want to buy new, a local dealer would be a plus for warranty stuff. I choose to buy used and have driven hundreds of miles for the right rig.

I would prefer to buy a used 5er, particularly if I knew a quality make & year. My problem is, pretty much everything I have read on the limited available reviews on RV's the stories of quality are scary and sound like they're all junk. Reading on RV Insider has me concerned. I know most reviewers are wanting to air problems, but boy the list of problems is awful. My current TT a 2020 Jayco, I bought from a friend who barely used it from new. I've had it a year and fixed to many things. Leaky shower, trim falling, canopy fasteners missing, furnace quit. Gezzz.

I'm a fix it person, but don't want a nightmare. Used with bugs worked out appeals to me, but what makers should I look at? I know most all are now made by the same few companies and maybe where the quality issues lay.

[MFL]

Originally Posted by RVfixit

No, the actual spec for that year was 1690 lbs pin weight unloaded and is one of the reasons I purchased it since I do have an F250. The newer ones are heavier, especially with the front living room.

OK, that is dry pin nearly 1,700. Quote: " Th 5er weighs in at about 12,100 lbs and fully loaded it weighs about 13,000 lbs with a pin weight of 1700 lbs."

Reading quote above, I thought loaded pin. All good!

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by RVfixit

No, the actual spec for that year was 1690 lbs pin weight unloaded and is one of the reasons I purchased it since I do have an F250. The newer ones are heavier, especially with the front living room.

Well you are going by specs and guesses, do you have an actual scale weights? I agree 1,700# is extremely light pin weight for a 13,000# 5th wheel. I also find it unlikely you only have 900# of gear in the trailer.

[RVfixit]

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

Well you are going by specs and guesses, do you have an actual scale weights? I agree 1,700# is extremely light pin weight for a 13,000# 5th wheel. I also find it unlikely you only have 900# of gear in the trailer.

I stated that these were the specs of the 5er and my truck. I dont care about having it weighed or even worry about it. It works great for me, I have no problems with pulling my 5er and don’t understand why this has to be a topic. The OP is just asking the group about what their opinions are and what they have that works for them which is what I shared.

[RVfixit]

Originally Posted by NeedToRetire

I would prefer to buy a used 5er, particularly if I knew a quality make & year. My problem is, pretty much everything I have read on the limited available reviews on RV's the stories of quality are scary and sound like they're all junk. Reading on RV Insider has me concerned. I know most reviewers are wanting to air problems, but boy the list of problems is awful. My current TT a 2020 Jayco, I bought from a friend who barely used it from new. I've had it a year and fixed to many things. Leaky shower, trim falling, canopy fasteners missing, furnace quit. Gezzz.

I'm a fix it person, but don't want a nightmare. Used with bugs worked out appeals to me, but what makers should I look at? I know most all are now made by the same few companies and maybe where the quality issues lay.

That’s what I traded in, a 2011 Jayce 30’ TT which was great. If I compare the two, I think the quality of the Jayco was better than the Cougar as far as the build goes, but everything else is the same, AC, furnace, water heater, etc.

Safe Travels!

[CPK805]

Hmm, I think you may be underselling yourself. Did a quick lookup of a 2023 Ford 250 diesel and the payload is around 4,000 lbs with a tow capacity of over 22,000 lbs so I think you can tow more than you think. However, having said that, even with our Silverado 2500 diesel we chose a comparatively small 31' unit because we didn't want to be towing around a 35 - 40' monster. Having recently retired myself I have no regrets choosing a 5er over a TT because as you surmised, setup and breakdown with features like auto-leveling and such make life sooo much easier and it tows like a dream. As a sidebar, I'm using an Anderson hitch because I need to use the truck while not towing and removing a 40 lb hitch is easier than trying to remove a conventional 5th hitch that can weigh up to 100lbs. I know many people advise against using them but it's been working well for us and I'm no longer at the age where I can horse around something that heavy. We bought our 2024 Grand Design new and although it's had its teething issues our dealer and Grand Design have been fantastic about getting those items fixed. Sorry I don't know anything about Keystone. I watch several YouTube channels and this

one

I particularly trust and is talking about the one you're interested in. Might be worth taking a look. We also live in a remote small community with limited access to RV dealerships (e.g., we bought ours at the closest dealer that is almost 40 miles away) but my suggestion would be to not limit yourself to only a local dealer that sells only one model. It may be worth driving a bit to find something that you end up being happier with in the long run. Good luck. By the way, the one you are looking at has the same basic floorplan as ours, only Arcadia's version. We love ours

[MFL]

I've towed many different sizes, types of trailers, but towing difference, ease of hookup/disconnect, is what makes a FW the better choice. I can look over my shoulder, and back right into my FW hitch, get out, lock the hitch arm, and I am hooked up.

Towing in a cross wind is never fun, but much better using a FW, that is attached right over the R/A, rather than behind the truck; so sway not a real issue.

With the Lite version of FWs, you are more likely to find smaller tanks, smaller axles, with smaller brakes/wheel bearings, and suspension. You will want 5,200 axles as a minimum, as they are a huge upgrade from 4,400 axles.

B&W makes a solid, very user friendly hitch for your Ford FW prep. It easily separates into 2 pieces (about 75#s each), using no tools, for quick in/out. See the B&W 3300 hitch & video at E-trailer.

[1960C182]

We currently have a 44 ft TH with 2 full baths. After our experience living in our 36 ft 5er for 14 months building a new home , I say if going " full time " then get the biggest most spacious RV you can afford along with a truck that is more than capable of towing safely along with an air-ride hitch. Living in these RVs they seem to somehow get smaller everyday