Community Forums

RoadEyePie · 08-24-2018, 10:32 PM

Well I have to say that I have learned a lot from these tours, but the most important lesson should have been obvious. Grand Design and DRV appear to both be excellent companies, managed very well. DRV is clearly a higher quality unit with a higher price tag, but not everyone wants or can afford a DRV. Grand Design (as well as Forest River) isn't competing with DRV. They have identified the segment of the RV market that they are going after and they build to that price point. Therefore the materials and construction process has to be matched to that segment of the market. So, I think it is fair to compare companies competing in the same price point, but not fair to compare Cardinals to DRV or Beacon. Folks buy what they can afford to buy and just because an RV is cheaper doesn't necessary make it a bad decision. My apologies for offending Cardinal owners. I do realize that there are many happy Cardinal owners out there.

I did take lots of photos on the tours and may try to post some when I get back home which may not be until after Hershey.

wingnut60 · 08-25-2018, 06:59 AM

It is really going to be an interesting as to what brand/model you end up with, and what happens after that.....

RoadEyePie · 08-25-2018, 07:34 AM

At DRV there were two roof options: fiberglass with a one year warranty or rubber with a twelve year warranty. Is the rubber roof the same as EPDM? I can't find any other roof system (except TPO).

Cooperhawk · 08-25-2018, 07:50 AM

Take the time to visit Winnebago Industries in Forest City, Ia. Their tour is amazing!

They turn out close to fifty units a day at that plant, five days a week, running only a day shift. Practically the entire city is involved with them.

They manufacture their own steel tubing, fiber glass panels, woodwork, cushions, ect.

Every appliance in the unit is anchored in the steel superstructure.

They are impressive.

RoadEyePie · 08-25-2018, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooperhawk

Take the time to visit Winnebago Industries in Forest City, Ia. Their tour is amazing!

They turn out close to fifty units a day at that plant, five days a week, running only a day shift. Practically the entire city is involved with them.

They manufacture their own steel tubing, fiber glass panels, woodwork, cushions, ect.

Every appliance in the unit is anchored in the steel superstructure.

They are impressive.

They no longer make a FW except the small Minnie that we aren't interested in.

Cooperhawk · 08-25-2018, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithnorv

They no longer make a FW except the small Minnie that we aren't interested in.

Well, I'll bite, what's an FW?

mrgrayaz · 08-25-2018, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooperhawk

Well, I'll bite, what's an FW?

5th wheel. Winnebago stopped making them when they bought Grand Design. I've looked at them used. Nice looking units....

Cooperhawk · 08-25-2018, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgrayaz

5th wheel. Winnebago stopped making them when they bought Grand Design. I've looked at them used. Nice looking units....

Of course.

Cooperhawk · 08-25-2018, 08:21 AM

How about this.

https://winnebagoind.com/products/to...pyder/overview

azpete · 08-25-2018, 08:32 AM

winnebago is the closest rv mfg to the automobile style assembly plant. from 1967 to the present, they have the most modern facility ive visited.
i dont see the downside to offering options on new coaches. within reason.
. if the options are priced at a point the mfg can make money, why not offer them.
it doesnt cost money to just offer something that is sold and installed while the coach is being built, as long as it doesnt effect the carrying weight or safety of the vehicle.

mfg have to worry about liability more than aftermarket folks do.

ScoobyDoo · 08-25-2018, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aknavy

but paying workers by the unit vice by the hour doesn't create an incentive to do quality work.

What? Are you trying to say the vast improvement in the quality of autos was because the big 3 started paying by the hour? Bullsnot!
I have worked my life piece work, and many times next to a guy paid by hour, and sometimes paid by hour. Both pay methods, the quality of my work was as high as I could make it, because I new if I did not do good work I would have none. Now, when on the clock I always went the way I was told. Piecework, if I saw a shortcut that did not reduce quality I would take it.
When large numbers of high quality cars hit our shores management was able to show the low quality work standards lead to products that do not sell. But RVers as a class, are the issue. They are willing to hand over piles of money for what many think are substandard quality products. If everybody was to inspect the RV, decide "I don't want to spend this much money, then spend time and/or money fixing the issues." The RVs that have to go back to the dealer would never leave the dealer. Show up to the board of directors with a truck load of salt and pepper, with a explanation that they have to eat 20% of last months production.
One advantage of piece-work. QC inspection finds something wrong, the worker that got paid to do the work gets to come and fix the problem before he can make money doing another one. But that only works if there is a QC inspection.

aknavy · 08-25-2018, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo

What? Are you trying to say the vast improvement in the quality of autos was because the big 3 started paying by the hour? Bullsnot!
I have worked my life piece work, and many times next to a guy paid by hour, and sometimes paid by hour. Both pay methods, the quality of my work was as high as I could make it, because I new if I did not do good work I would have none. Now, when on the clock I always went the way I was told. Piecework, if I saw a shortcut that did not reduce quality I would take it.
When large numbers of high quality cars hit our shores management was able to show the low quality work standards lead to products that do not sell. But RVers as a class, are the issue. They are willing to hand over piles of money for what many think are substandard quality products. If everybody was to inspect the RV, decide "I don't want to spend this much money, then spend time and/or money fixing the issues." The RVs that have to go back to the dealer would never leave the dealer. Show up to the board of directors with a truck load of salt and pepper, with a explanation that they have to eat 20% of last months production.
One advantage of piece-work. QC inspection finds something wrong, the worker that got paid to do the work gets to come and fix the problem before he can make money doing another one. But that only works if there is a QC inspection.

The issue I saw at the factory was a combination of pay by the piece and no QC - once a worker realized that they can go home an hour or two earlier and no one will call them on crappy work, they rush thru the job and don't make sure it's correct. You would not believe how many things I saw, like screws that were half driven or completely missed the stud/item they were meant to secure that would have only taken a couple extra minutes to fix. But with no incentive to slow down and fix it, they just let it go. I would say that in all three factories I was in, at least 10 percent of the fasteners weren't sunk correctly. And don't even get me started on the welds in the walls......one of the reasons I chose a RV without welded aluminum frames inside the wall.

mobilemike · 08-25-2018, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithnorv

I'm in Elkhart, Indiana. When we got out of our car, we heard this giant sucking sound. At first, I thought it was a tornado...but it was the sound of the RV industry sucking money out of Americans all across the land.

First tour of Forest River Cardinal plant was truly shocking. The worst managed operation I've ever witnessed. Half way through the tour, we knew we would never purchase anything from these people. I'm appalled that a Berkshire Hathaway company could be so poorly managed. I'd buy a pup tent before I'd buy one of these units. EVERYONE should tour the RV company they are interested in before they buy from them. We toured Vanleigh in June and compared to them, these RVs are junk. Just my opinion.

Next up Grand Design, DRV and Forest River Cedar Creek.

I do wish you would be FAR MORE specific on the deficiencies you saw at the plant.

Large general statements do the community no good. Be specific on what you saw and what you do not like about it.

Other wise your critique is as helpful as someone who gets a steak under cooked and calls the restaurant trash.

BRex45 · 08-25-2018, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobilemike

I do wish you would be FAR MORE specific on the deficiencies you saw at the plant.

Large general statements do the community no good. Be specific on what you saw and what you do not like about it.

Other wise your critique is as helpful as someone who gets a steak under cooked and calls the restaurant trash.

YES,

I also would like to hear from the manwhoneverownedanRV. HE claimed mismanagement and poor quality and did not provide any specifics.

Are you able to provide any specific reasons why there was poor quality and mismanagement observed during your tour(s)?

If you can't, you might consider hiding the keyboard until your experience level increases; after actually owning and operating an RV. There is enough anecdotal information already posted on this forum.