How do you personally rate the top of the line 5th wheels?

[Palmeris]

Originally Posted by darrellr

......I will not argue the recurring issues, but I am not sure it is specific to FR and also not sure the luxury brands don't also have component issues if they are using the same commodity LCI parts.

The " luxury brands" dont use LCI parts. Thats what gives them the top ratings.

Any manufacture can make the insides look nice, spit polish and paint, shinny countertops, real wood trim, blinky lights, big screen tv, etc.

Whats underneath the glitz is what makes them top of the line and why I rate them the way I did, my opinion, and everyone has their own opinions, needs, wants and budgets-

Remember the OP title-How do you personally rate the top of the line 5th wheels?

[Overtaxed1]

Originally Posted by Palmeris

The " luxury brands" dont use LCI parts. Thats what gives them the top ratings.

Any manufacture can make the insides look nice, spit polish and paint, shinny countertops, real wood trim, blinky lights, big screen tv, etc.

Whats underneath the glitz is what makes them top of the line and why I rate them the way I did, my opinion, and everyone has their own opinions, needs, wants and budgets-

Remember the OP title-How do you personally rate the top of the line 5th wheels?

As the OP, I'll give some of the things that I see that differentiate the higher tier brands from lower. Again, this is just my list, so take it for what you paid for it.

1) Morryde IS factory option (or Kelderman, or another top end suspension system)
2) Full body paint (no decals)
3) Soft touch walls
4) Ducted AC w/heat pumps on all units
5) Dual pane windows standard
6) Power cord reel
7) Multiple interior options, higher end, customized interior options
8) 4 season rated (although, TBH, everything seems to have this today)
9) Easily to service (access panels, cut offs for plumbing, everything labeled)
10) Higher quality cabinets/drawers (everything M/T or dovetailed, hardwood, etc)
11) Better furniture (generally not Thomas Payne)
12) 17.5" tires
13) Disc brakes
14) Solid core doors

I'd also add to this list, getting rid of some Lippert junk. I don't think there's any way to build an RV without some Lippert stuff in there; and, to be fair, some Lippert components are pretty good/very good. But in the higher end units, you'll find that some of the Lippert components are either custom or from another vendor. Highest of the high end, you'll find a lot of custom components; using very little from Lippert.

One of the big giveaways is weight. As you move up the "high end" chart, the weights go up pretty proportionally. It's not always the case, but, in general, the top tier brands are going to weigh at least 500lbs/ft where mass market lands in the 300-400/ft. Also, generally you'll find high CC in the highest end brands which indicates a lot of "overbuild" in the components.

[Edd505]

I really like the Vanleigh Beacons, I think they hit almost all the Overtax1 has in the list. Very nice 5W.

[oscarvan]

Originally Posted by darrellr

But have you been in a Riverstone? I think you are lumping all Forest River into one bucket, which may not be fair given the brands they have bought and the breadth of their product lines. I will not argue the recurring issues, but I am not sure it is specific to FR and also not sure the luxury brands don't also have component issues if they are using the same commodity LCI parts.

I have been in a Riverstone. And while it was nice in the sense that they used the quality countertops and cabinet hardware they were mostly using the same ol' components on slides, axles/suspension/roof, electrical, plumbing etc.......

On top of it all FR, like all the other manufacturers, do not hold their stealerships accountable for customer service. Too many stories of people not being able to use their units for months new out of the box.

And yes, this is industry wide. Don't know about the others but NH takes VERY good care of their customers and they truly build a good product. There is a reason their waiting list is two years.

NO ONE in the entire industry is building the iPhone of RV's. Something that is radically improved, reliable and user friendly. They are still all built like garden sheds on utility trailers, like they've been for 70 years.

[darrellr]

Originally Posted by oscarvan

I have been in a Riverstone. And while it was nice in the sense that they used the quality countertops and cabinet hardware they were mostly using the same ol' components on slides, axles/suspension/roof, electrical, plumbing etc.......

On top of it all FR, like all the other manufacturers, do not hold their stealerships accountable for customer service. Too many stories of people not being able to use their units for months new out of the box.

And yes, this is industry wide. Don't know about the others but NH takes VERY good care of their customers and they truly build a good product. There is a reason their waiting list is two years.

NO ONE in the entire industry is building the iPhone of RV's. Something that is radically improved, reliable and user friendly. They are still all built like garden sheds on utility trailers, like they've been for 70 years.

I agree with most of your assessment here. I do not have experience with NH.

[jacknife]

It is all about the money . Most don’t full time . Many are young families . Star Craft ,NH are in the stratosphere as far as cost go which is fine if you have that kind of money . Most don’t . They are top of the line no argument there and that was the question .

[tuffr2]

Spacecraft is the tippy top.
New Horizons is near tippy top.
Luxe is right below New Horizons.
Then DRV
Then all the others.

[oscarvan]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Spacecraft is the tippy top.
New Horizons is near tippy top.
Luxe is right below New Horizons.
Then DRV
Then all the others.

DRV got slobbered up by the THOR monster and the party is over based on the FB page I was on for a while when I was shopping......

[Overtaxed1]

Originally Posted by oscarvan

DRV got slobbered up by the THOR monster and the party is over based on the FB page I was on for a while when I was shopping......

I was not impressed with a new DRV. I have a friend who has an older one and have been through his unit and would certainly rate what I see in his as in the same or similar category with Luxe. The new ones we saw, both at a local dealership and in Tampa this year, I did not feel they were in that category anymore.

Vanleigh shut down the Beacon production, IIRC. I really wanted to see one; just shopping the specs/videos, it did look to hit a lot of the boxes we were interested in.

It appears that there's very, VERY little room at the "top of the top" market. If you add up total yearly production for SpaceCraft/NH and Luxe, what do you wind up with? 200 units per year? 100 wouldn't blow my mind (I know Luxe builds a few a month, and I suspect they are the highest production compared to NH and Spacecraft). Honestly, it's kind of a surprise to me, if you're shopping a mid/higher end class A, you would think that you'd cross shop a 5'er/truck combo in the same price range. Even if you go to a custom M106 hauler with a NH behind you, you're still not even to the middle of the price range for the higher end class A's, and they seem to sell a lot of them; I see Prevost's commonly in RV parks, I've never seen a Luxe, 1-2 New Horizons, and one SpaceCraft in ~5 years of RVing and 100+ nights in parks.

[tuffr2]

I think people get it set in their head that they want a Class 'A' or a 5th wheel / truck and don't really cross shop the two very often. It is still true you can get more RV with a truck and 5th wheel, that is a little less expensive, than a class 'A' motorhome IMHO.

One 5th wheel that was not mentioned is the River Stone. I think those are nice and built pretty well. I believe they have a 3" side wall.

[Overtaxed1]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I think people get it set in their head that they want a Class 'A' or a 5th wheel / truck and don't really cross shop the two very often. It is still true you can get more RV with a truck and 5th wheel, that is a little less expensive, than a class 'A' motorhome IMHO.

One 5th wheel that was not mentioned is the River Stone. I think those are nice and built pretty well. I believe they have a 3" side wall.

We cross shopped them pretty heavily when we were looking for our first RV. But I think you're right, perhaps there's less overlap in the market than I might imagine there to be. Kind of strange though IMHO, they are more similar than different. I would have thought that perhaps people who don't know how to tow or can't do the hookup/unhook on a 5er would choose a class A, but almost nobody I see has a class A without a toad behind it, so I'm not sure it's that much easier to get ready to roll in a class A vs a 5er. Maybe a little?

We liked the Riverstone, it was one of the companies we went to see at the Tampa show to look at the 45Bath. We liked what we saw, and when we got home, started reaching out to dealers. We couldn't get a single dealer to even put together a quote for it, let alone provide a delivery timeline or work with us on a trade/price. That kind of told me what I needed to know, if their dealers wouldn't call back an interested buyer, what would it be like for warranty service??

This isn't a knock on their RV though, we did really like it; just that we had no good way to actually price/purchase it. We had the same problem with Grand Design, and wound up eventually, on a PM recommendation, getting the name of someone about 500 miles at a dealer who was "good". He was good, very good in fact, and we almost went with that because we had a way to actually purchase it, unlike the Riverstone who's dealers had no interest at all in selling us one of them.