I need some opinions on the fairness of a RV Service vendor.

[Bill Gail]

Originally Posted by Zulu Kono

That ain't how subcontracting works.
The guy who hires you for a job is the guy who pays you.
Guy #3 wasn't hired by the OP, he was hired
by the RV service owner or one of his employees.
The OP should take responsibility here.
He allowed middlemen to be involved,
and that's inherently parasitic.
He allowed the RV service to make the arrangements,
and they delivered, even though the subcontractor
was ill-prepared and unprofessional.
The OP asking the subcontractor how
much the job would cost, that's unethical.
The sub answering the question, that's unprofessional.
The RV service owner is obviously an unscrupulous shyster,
but the OP ought to man up and own his mistakes.
Some of you people do business like itches.

Why is the OP the guy responsible for the middleman trying to screw him ?

The middleman increased the estimate and performed the work without notifying the OP .

In my neck of the woods it is illegal to increase the cost of the work over the amount of the estimate without prior consent BEFORE proceeding with the work .

In fact , as a prior post suggested , I would attach a detailed bill for the labor and rental cost of the equipment for the prep work the OP performed .

Enough of making the Middleman the victim .

The whole idea of the OP manning up and taking responsibility is B.S. . I would hold the Middleman responsible for his malfeasance .

My 2¢ FWIW.

[Boogie_]

In my neck of the woods it is illegal to increase the cost of the work over the amount of the estimate without prior consent BEFORE proceeding with the work .

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!



I do customer work (paint & body).

Dropping an invoice that is double what you quoted is off the chart crooked.



Just imagine if this spring hangar work was being done thru/by/authorized by your insurance company.
Insurance adjuster gets a quote of $600 (seems kinda high BTW) and gives the go-ahead for the work to be done.

Then ol' Stevie submits his bill for $1200 to the insurance company.

The adjuster would tell Steve he will have to submit a supplement for the additional extra damage that caused the repair to double in cost.

Steve says there is no additional damage, just that a bunch of guys standing around want to get paid too.

Upon learning there was no additional damage, the adjuster would just chuckle and tell Stevie his check for $600 bucks is on the way.

[dizcom]

Originally Posted by JETAV8R

You clearly understand the scam that masquarades as a consumer advocacy organization and uses the name, Better Business Bureau. I was not aware of the ROC.

I will probably in good faith, I tender and submit payment on their invoice in full, and in Accord and Satisfaction, for their invoice, with objection, under duress, in protest, and with all rights reserved. Then I file in Small Claims Court. Simple process.

Interesting. I've had great success going through the BBB, that's why I recommended it. They've done for us exactly what I said they would do in my post: sent a letter forwarding my complaint and got us a response that we weren't getting on our own. Last time I used them I got a partial refund from a business who was not a member. Sending an email to BBB doesn't cost a thing, and neither does their forwarding the complaint to the business, so it isn't a scam. The complaint is recorded on their website so that anyone that chooses to can see both the complaint and the resolution.

[Hpozzuoli]

The guy is a Mobil welder, what size jobs does a Mobil welder expect to get? I am in construction and use welders often. They do railings and usually equipment repair. Most jobs are $500-$1500 and around an hour long.

I am not sure why either of the first two balked at doing it. I have a feeling it had more to do with competency than it did with money despite how great a welder Steve proclaimed to be. You are not going to get big ticket jobs being Mobil. Your target is the small quick jobs so you can do many in a day. At the end of the day your receipts will add up nicely. Do 3-4 $500 jobs in a day and things start looking better.

I think you just found a bunch of incompetent folks who knew it themselves and had to bring an a third party.

[JETAV8R]

Originally Posted by TeachTexas

First, I agree this was not a fair transaction by the service company.
Unfortunately, you may be caught in a myriad of issues.


Steve did go back and get fire extinguisher and floor jack so he did do something; however minuscule it was.
You did not have a written estimate, so it would be an argument as to what was proposed.
Steve may be in violation of the particular states estimate laws but you would have to contest that.
Steve could file a mechanics lien on your rig if he wanted to play hardball and then you would have to fight that.
As another poster said, I would try to negotiate the bill but be prepared to take your lumps and move on.

"...Steve did go back and get fire extinguisher and floor jack..."

Yes, he did. So why did he hire a welder who showed up so unequipped?

"...Steve could file a mechanics lien on your rig if he wanted to play hardball and then you would have to fight that."

Without a written agreement, how can he legally file a mechanics lien, particularly when I told his that in good faith I would pay the invoice and then discuss the fairness later?

[Mark_K5LXP]

I've had just the opposite happen. Contractor shows up to work on my house, I help him do some of the work and we use some of my tools and materials. Job is done, he knocks a few hundred off the quoted price because I did some of the grunt work.

I see the end payment being any amount over the original estimate based on actual documented expenses. Per above, mere participants don't warrant compensation so the invoice must document the specifics of the amount charged. If it's "labor" for the peanut gallery in attendance, then the shop will have to document what the labor was for over and above the guy holding the torch. Independent tradesmen I've contracted with will write a scope of work before anything happens, even if just on a piece of notepaper so the invoice must show exactly what was done and it's associated value. The final negotiated amount goes to the first guy, whatever settles out for the others after that will be up to him.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

[TeachTexas]

Originally Posted by JETAV8R

"...Steve did go back and get fire extinguisher and floor jack..."

Yes, he did. So why did he hire a welder who showed up so unequipped?

"...Steve could file a mechanics lien on your rig if he wanted to play hardball and then you would have to fight that."

Without a written agreement, how can he legally file a mechanics lien, particularly when I told his that in good faith I would pay the invoice and then discuss the fairness later?

Your post that you would pay invoice was after my comment.
In regard to the lien, all he has to have is an invoice that he claims is not paid to start the process and get the filing.


I wish you luck in small claims.

[AirBossdavid]

What a mess. I would have been soooo pissed! What is it with the people in this business. They seem to have no clue how to fix anything, no clue how things work and no clue how to provide good service. The barrier to entry is just too low. Anyone can put a sign out that says RV technition and it shows.

Best part is I am sure Steve expects you to come back and get new suspension installed. I would not let him work on my bicycle.

You are in the right. I would pay Steve 425 and tell him to sue you for the rest.

[Azmiike]

RV Dealers are notorious for giving poor service and screwing customers.

[THenne1713]

I think I would print your scenario and hand to Steve and tell him to pound sand? You did not need him to hold your hand, and he definitely did NOT help. You are within the range of your quote. He cannot justify more

[JETAV8R]

Thanks for everyone's input. I settled with the RV Service owner for $500. He accepted the offer and his wife sent me a revised invoice for $500. I paid them $500.00, specifying that it was for all work performed by the RV Service vendor, the welder and Michael, in accord & satisfaction as payment in full. Payment was tendered, which under the law is considered discharged. I sent them an email with a credit card number, which can only be used once that included all of the pertinent language delineating the payment. Whether they charge the credit card or not, legally I have paid them and have no further obligation. Steve and his too good to do the welding job himself ego is still pouting.

What's interesting is that Michael was initially brought over to sell me on the Roadmaster Comfort Ride Leaf Spring Suspension Kit w/ Shock Absorbers - Tandem 7K Trailer Axles.

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lea...2460-2570.html

I WAS going to have them install that system, which would have made them an easy $1,000 profit. I would not hire this crew, or any. of them individually to check my tire pressure.

Thanks again everyone.

Originally Posted by JETAV8R

I need some opinions on the fairness of a RV Service vendor.

I have broken three spring hangers on different occasions, and on different fifth wheel trailers over the past fifteen years. The first two times I contacted a mobile welder, and a spring hanger was welded on at a reasonable price.

The third time was recent on a 2019 Jayco North Point. I contacted a mobile RV repair facility.

I spoke with the RV Service owner, Steve, regarding a broken spring hanger. Steve stopped by my campsite and looked at the broken spring hanger. He took a couple of measurements and said that one of his contractors, Michael, might have better solutions than just replacing the spring hanger.

Steve asked if I would be okay with Michael stopping by to talk about the other solution. I said it was fine for Michael to stop by to discuss other options, which was fundamentally a sales call to see if I wanted to buy an $1,800 suspension kit plus installation estimate of $800.00. I told Michael that I would consider it, but the immediate need was to have the broken hanger replaced.

I spoke with the RV service owner (Steve) and indicated that the first priority would be to have a new spring hanger welded on, and if I decided to have the beefed-up suspension kit installed, it could be done when I returned to the campground on my next trip, in about six weeks.

Steve indicated that he did not want to do the weld job himself, stating that if he did, everyone in the park would want him to weld something for them, because his welding equipment is extraordinarily loud, and because his welding skills are far too great to just weld a spring hanger on a fifth wheel. I indicated that I simply needed the hanger welded on and was happy to continue to support and patronize his business to have the job done.

Steve contracted with Michael for the job to weld a new spring hanger on the Jayco. Michael stated that the welding would cost between $400 and $600, which would include inspecting all of the other five spring hangers. Michael is not a welder and has no expertise in welding. Some people might question why Steve contracted with Michael, a long-time friend, to weld a spring hanger on the Jayco, knowing that Michael is not a welder.

Michael located a welder and contracted with him to weld the spring hanger on the Jayco. Essentially, Michael Googled ‘mobile welders,’ which I obviously could have done myself, since that is how I located the first two I had used previously. Michael did not know, and had zero experience using the welder he referred for this job.

On the day that the welding was to be done, I began to ready my Jayco for the job. I pulled in all of the slide-outs, readied the batteries to be disconnected before welding, I raised the Jayco with my 30,000 lb hydraulic jack. I removed the tire. I removed the wet bolt holding on the broken spring hanger and cleaned and prepped the area for the welding. I also had a garden hose hooked up and turned on for any fires.

The welder arrived first. He was alone. He had a truck with a welder and an electric generator. I asked the welder what the cost would be. He stated the cost would be $425.00. I asked about his experience. He had never welded a spring hanger on a travel trailer before. But he had seventeen years of experience welding. I asked him to look at the job and tell me if he was confident that he could do the job. He felt comfortable doing the job.

Although the welder was experienced, he arrived unprepared. He had no jacks or safety stands, nor did he have a fire extinguisher. Welding a suspension system involves welding around a significant amount of flammable grease. An additional hydraulic jack and safety stands would have been helpful too.

Michael arrived and Steven arrived shortly after. Steven also brought one of his employees. With six people, we had enough guys to build a pole barn. I was under the impression that the people in attendance were there to observe and learn, since none of them had previously welded a spring hanger on a travel trailer. I am always happy to participate in training, commonly referred to as ‘tech time.’

Michael did not bring any jacks, safety stands, or any other needed equipment for the job, nor did Steve. Steve went back to his shop to get a fire extinguisher and a floor jack. All of the tools and equipment needed to complete the job should have been coordinated with the welder, who was ultimately doing the job, days before. The only person who was necessary was the welder and me.

Most of the equipment, and all of the prep work, including the battery disconnect and reconnect was performed by me personally. I supplied the hydraulic jack and two safety stands. I raised the rig. I removed the tire, the wet bolt from the broken hanger and prepared the area for welding. None of the other people in the platoon arrived with any of that equipment. Had I not had the equipment and done the prep work, the welder would likely have left – unable to do the job.

It seemed like the job was put together by Steve haphazardly, unorganized, uncoordinated, with preference to use his friend, Michael, who was not necessary for this job. Steve contracted the welding to someone with little or no welding experience, and no welding expertise – Michael. Then, Michael, with no welding expertise hired the welder, whom he never used and didn’t know. The welder had never welded a spring hanger on a travel trailer. To compensate for the lack of expertise, an entire battalion of grown men showed up, and there still wasn’t adequate equipment.

I was quoted that the job to weld a spring hanger on my Jayco and inspect all other spring hangers would be between $400 and $600. When the welder arrived, I was told the job would be $425.00.

If I had even thought that the invoice would end up at roughly double the estimate, I would have passed and found my own welder, which I had done twice before. In both instances, it was an identical job on a Keystone Alpine at a cost of roughly $450 each time.

A couple of days later, Steve presented me with an invoice that was more than double the welders stated cost. His explanation was that everyone in attendance expected to be paid. None of them were necessary, and none of them had ever welded a spring hanger on a fifth wheel.

I was quoted a range of $400 to $600, and the welder confirmed the cost before starting the job at $425.

Is the customer responsible to pay for the mistakes, lack of coordination and errors of a vendor, and pay for people that were not a necessary part of the job?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

[JETAV8R]

Originally Posted by TeachTexas

Your post that you would pay invoice was after my comment.
In regard to the lien, all he has to have is an invoice that he claims is not paid to start the process and get the filing.


I wish you luck in small claims.

"...all he has to have is an invoice that he claims is not paid to start the process and get the filing."

Not quite.

[Flyer15015]

OP.
For a bit less than the $500.00 you spent, you can buy a small arc welder from Harbor Frt.
Take lessons on line and practice in the garage.
The welder plugs into 110 V and is a bit bigger than a shoe box. Doesn't weigh as much as 2 gallons of water, so it's a "take along". Carry E-7014 rods in a can and maybe you can recover your $$$ at the next campground.............

Mike in Colorado

[JRI]

Taking your post as gospel. I would pay the welder his $425.00 and that would be the end of it. Steve, Mike and the assorted "work crew" would not get a penny.