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Old 04-24-2018, 09:00 AM   #1
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New 5th wheel sway

Just wondering if anyone has upgraded their 5th wheel to find out that the new one doesn't tow as well as their one it replaced.
Condensed version:
Had 2 5ers over the last 10 years, both same size'ish and weight (26' and about 7000#) Towed perfectly with 06 F250 (well below all specs)
New 5er, 3' longer about 1100# heavier..still well below spec) doesn't tow well. Going down hill it wants to push the truck around as does grooved pavement.

Upgraded tires on trailer from load range D to Maxxis E
Upgraded shocks on truck from stock to Bilsteins
Added rear sway bar in truck.

Helped some...but still not to my liking.

Here's the weights:
Truck weight... steer & rear (without trailer) STEER AXLE 3880 DRIVE AXLE 3100 (wife wasn't in truck for solo weigh add 180#)
Truck & 5th wheel... steer, rear & trailer axel. STEER AXLE 4040 DRIVE AXLE 4520 TRAILER AXLE 6800
TRUCK:FRONT GAWR 5200# REAR GAWR 6100# GVWR 9200#
*note camper weights are loaded as going for long weekend, not empty

2006 F250 5.4 w/4.10 rear short bed supercab Curt Q20 hitch w/o slider
Tow cap 11,2K

-Possible too light of pin weight?
-Too much overhang rear of the camper axle
-too short of wheelbase on truck for geometry of new camper
-camper and truck just aren't a match

Thoughts?
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:10 AM   #2
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You could stand more pin weight. You are less than 20%. This should help.
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:49 PM   #3
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I had a similar scenario with a trailer that my truck should have handled easily but didn't. My problems manifested themselves as chucking and bouncing forces, not pushing the truck around. My research showed that different trailers have different towing dynamics, some which you cannot change. A couple of thoughts:

If my math is correct your trailer weighs 8,380#. Expect it to be different than your last lighter trailer (assuming your truck was loaded the same before and after).

Your pin weight is 17%, a little light. Try shifting some weight forward and see if that helps.

Are you running your LR-E tires at 80 psi? The trailer might be happier at the 65 psi of the Ds.

If a used trailer maybe check your shackles for wear and that your axles are tracking correctly.

Hope you get it sorted out and receive a number of helpful replies on your first post.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:43 PM   #4
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Tire pressure correct?

Try towing it with another truck?

Pin ahead of the rear truck axle?

Pin box is secure?

Trailer +/- level and both axles carrying the +/- the same weight?

Check pre-load/torque on the wheel bearings?

Check the ratio between pin to axles and axle to bumper?

https://www.engineersedge.com/calcul...ht-balance.htm

Axle aliment. If you can find one it cost $300-$500 to have a mobile laser aliment done.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:48 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ALLOY View Post
Tire pressure correct?

Try towing it with another truck? Not yet...but thinking about it

Pin ahead of the rear truck axle? Yes, I used custom brackets so there is no room for error

Pin box is secure? yes

Trailer +/- level and both axles carrying the +/- the same weight? yes, perfectly level

Check pre-load/torque on the wheel bearings? no, but can/will

Check the ratio between pin to axles and axle to bumper? I will...

https://www.engineersedge.com/calcul...ht-balance.htm

Axle aliment. If you can find one it cost $300-$500 to have a mobile laser aliment done.
Going to see where near me they can accommodate this.


see above for response, some good things for me to think about and look in to.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:04 AM   #6
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What about your tires on the TV? How old are the tires? How much tread left? Are the tires P or LT tires? What is the weight rating on your current tires?

I switch out my winter tires Michelin MS2 LT265/70R/17E 121/118 tires rated for 3197 LBS @ 80 PSI. To my summer towing tires Nitto Dura Grappler LT285/70R17 126R rated for 3750 LBS @ 80PSI. Why? Added stability with a more stiffer tire when towing my 5er.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:12 AM   #7
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A simple attempt to resolve it would involve you getting bags of Sacrete and laying them towards the front of the 5er. Pile 6 to 12 up there and take it for a drive.

That will tell you if it's a weight-distribution problem.
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:12 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jimcumminsw View Post
What about your tires on the TV? How old are the tires? How much tread left? Are the tires P or LT tires? What is the weight rating on your current tires?

I switch out my winter tires Michelin MS2 LT265/70R/17E 121/118 tires rated for 3197 LBS @ 80 PSI. To my summer towing tires Nitto Dura Grappler LT285/70R17 126R rated for 3750 LBS @ 80PSI. Why? Added stability with a more stiffer tire when towing my 5er.

Tires on the TV are about 3 years old and have only a few thousand miles on them. They are Bridgestone Duelers Revo2 LT265/70/17...thought about a bit of tire squirm with this particular tread and being not quite broken in yet but the truck towed last 5er fine....unless the dynamics of this camper changed enough where there is squirm now...I didn't consider it to be a very aggressive tread, choose it because I had excellent luck with them on my other vehicles and needed a little more traction than the stock Pirelli Scorpions which would spin on wet grass. I run the Revo's at 80psi
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:20 AM   #9
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A simple attempt to resolve it would involve you getting bags of Sacrete and laying them towards the front of the 5er. Pile 6 to 12 up there and take it for a drive.

That will tell you if it's a weight-distribution problem.
Good idea, just need something to put the bags of it in as they are very dusty....

With my unit the bed slides out so this option would give me enough room to place the bags between the bed and the front closet, most forward.

What's weird is last year when I picked the unit up, on the way home I don't recall having any issues, and the way it is loaded now it would be heavier on the pin than empty...strange...
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:32 AM   #10
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There are instructions for how to measure axle alignment on the 5er. That would be one of the things I would do right away.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:44 PM   #11
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If when you picked it up and felt no movement you may have had a belt move or break in one of the tires. A radial force balance of your trailer tires will reveal if this is happening. When a belt moves or especially breaks it causes the tire to squirm around on the road when creates a rain grooving effect.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:02 AM   #12
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If when you picked it up and felt no movement you may have had a belt move or break in one of the tires. A radial force balance of your trailer tires will reveal if this is happening. When a belt moves or especially breaks it causes the tire to squirm around on the road when creates a rain grooving effect.
As far as the trailer tires, they are new Maxxis 8008's load range e's, they made an improvement over the china bombs load range D's, since the trailer sways with both sets not thinking it is the trailer tires.
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ALLOY View Post
Tire pressure correct?

Try towing it with another truck?

Pin ahead of the rear truck axle?

Pin box is secure?

Trailer +/- level and both axles carrying the +/- the same weight?

Check pre-load/torque on the wheel bearings?

Check the ratio between pin to axles and axle to bumper?

https://www.engineersedge.com/calcul...ht-balance.htm

Axle aliment. If you can find one it cost $300-$500 to have a mobile laser aliment done.
I tried using the ratio calculator but with a fifth wheel it didn't seem to apply and even if I did enter in what I had couldn't figure out the ratio.

I had from between the axle to the pin is 201" from between axle to rear of camper is 128 length of camper is 330...from the basic math I get a 63/37 ratio but not sure what that means.....
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:22 AM   #14
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As far as the trailer tires, they are new Maxxis 8008's load range e's, they made an improvement over the china bombs load range D's, since the trailer sways with both sets not thinking it is the trailer tires.
I thought Maxxis was made in china......
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