Newbie mistake Brakes end up smoking

[Powerstroke2000]

Originally Posted by baranski37

I hate to admit to this, but wanted some info on the potential damage I may have caused. I am staying at an rv park in Fayetteville AR and my daughter asked us to watch her house for about 10 days. To save on weekly rate we decided to park 5er outside daughters home and just leave heater on.

Pulling out of rv park I must have turned to sharp and the breakaway came loose engaging trailer brakes. The trailer is a KZ Durango 380FLF 2019 with gross of 16K. I pull with a 2018 F350 SRW. Long story short i pulled trailer about 6 miles upto 60mph. A passing motorist motioned to pull over and I did and the brakes were smoking.
I thought things felt like it was pulling different, but it wasnt taking extreme effort to pull at one point truck upshifted to 6th.

I quickly pulled over after checking everything i saw breakaway plunger laying in truck bed. I reinserted then drove less than 1 mile exited highway and pulled into large parking lot. I let things cool for 15 minutes then drove 2 miles to my daughters place.

What would some experienced folks recommend that i have checked. Do i need to have brakes checked and or wheel bearings.

I feel dumb enough and already beat myself up about not catchibg this sooner. Since getting 5er last july i noticed the brakes didnt feel strong enough to stop trailer with gain at 10. It kind of convinces me that i should upgrade to disk once Im back around home rv park in DFW area. I may have to wait awhile due to the cost.

Regards
Ron

Yes, I would suggest checking bearings for sure, as the grease would have broke down to a lower consistency! I’d check the tires over too, in case they dragged and wore a flat spot!

[alpenlite29]

Just some basic concepts of the brake system? Was the Brake wire FUSED? Did a fuse blow? If I set my brake controller on HIGH...my trailer tires lock up??? Are your tires flat spotted from dragging? I think I would have a trailer repair mechanic road test or drive the truck trailer before over reacting to possible damage. A simple wheel bearing packing and inspection should reveal any damage that may have occurred? JMHO.

[LegacyFB38]

Originally Posted by baranski37

... I have mostly decided to just put same type brakes back on it unless they are near the $2000 they quoted for kit from performance brakes. Regards Ron

I'd bet money that the disc brake conversion will cost more than fixing what you have. I'd also bet money that disc brakes will prove to be WAAY better than the drum brakes.

Our 18,000# plus 5th wheel with disc brakes out performs every drum brake trailer we have owned...and they all weighed significantly less.

If what you have can be properly repaired for say less than $400, I'd go for it. After all, the parts are not very old. Any more money than that and I'd personally go for a disc conversion.

[halibut214]

If the brakes still work okay you probably did nothing. The best thing you could have done was plugged it back in and took off so the drum cooled evenly.

[McFord94]

Not sure how people are getting 14k 5ers to skid the tires at any speed. The factory installed electric brakes are a joke even when new and adjusted properly. Even on highest setting. Disc brakes should be standard equipment.

[B and B]

One thing to consider. If the brakes had grease on them they might be OK and the smoke might have been grease burning. I would get someone to help you pull a wheel and drum. If they look ok clean with brake cleaner and reinstall.

[Apprentice]

Originally Posted by baranski37

From the beginning the brakes would not lock the tires with controller set on 10.0 after trying to get tires to lock at lower settings doing 15 mph on gravel. Thanks for all advice. Ron

All the cautions about full inspection are important.
But know that there are several reasons for brakes not locking, especially when new.
First, the outer arc of the shoe seldom matches the inner arc of the drums, until they have enough miles to wear in. This means that the shoes don't make full contact with the drums - maybe only 20%. You'll only get 20% of the braking power, no matter how much current you feed them.
There is also a factory glaze that must be broken.
After the glaze is gone and the shoes make full contact you will have full brakes.
However you may need a lot of wearing in, and if the brakes aren't readjusted - in about a thousand miles - they may actually ruin themselves with uneven wear.
Self-adjusting brakes, like Dexter's NeverAdjust, need some amount of "purchase" or drag, to initiate the self-adjusting process. If the shoes make inadequate contact, they need to be manually adjusted the first time, and the adjuster should be able to take over from there.
Back in the day when every brake shop did drum brakes, a complete brake job included "arcing" the shoes to match the curvature of it's individual drum. And the glaze burnished away. Also, drums were turned to make them round (few were), take out the score marks and overheated spots. A lost art.
In our area, there are no shops that still have the arc and drum-turning machines, but ask your Fayetteville shop if they can do that, so you have full brakes from day one. It can be done manually with a rasp if you are of a mind to do it.

[NeilV]

Nix arcing the brakes yourself with a rasp especially already being a cancer survivor as you do not want to roll that dice twice.

Also be careful about how you use brake clean and what you soak with it as most are harmful to rubber and plastics. Many brake cleaners when heated can deteriorate into Poisonous Phosgene or Chlorine Gases. Folks who use brake clean on hot brakes or as part of their welding prep have found that out the hard way of they used a formulation of brake clean that off gases poisonous fumes when hot.

As far as the warranty well that's a tough call since you noted it as an issue from day one yet did not let the dealer or manufacturer vet that out immediately when it would likely have cost relatively little to correct things. If they offer more than partial coverage of the costs of repairs it will be more than one would reasonably expect after all this time after you noticed the issue without reporting it. If you overheated the spindles and bearings you would usually see the oil separating from the pressure additives in the grease and dripping down your rims and off the back of the hubs.

Too many tandem axle trailers only have brakes on one axle and not on both so you may want to upgrade to having brakes on both axles if they only put them on one. If you plan on taking it up into Canada some areas may take exception to having brakes on only one axle in a tandem setup.

Personally I have been able to stop my entire rig with the bypass button/lever on the brake controller even with the drum brakes on a 1969 35 foot Prowler of course provided they were properly adjusted and those were only on one of the tandem axles on that one.

[Yoders2Go]

I would have the entire braking system checked, and your tires too!

[samedyerv]

As your foot is on the floor, the Exhaust Brake is activated, you’re Crushing the manual lever on your Brake Controller... that carload of kids in front of yo7 is Looming Larger & Larger as you try to convince the trailer behind you (which weighs more than twice as much as your truck!) to Quit Pushing You!!

We pulled our Full-Time 33’ Teton 5er with a 2000 Enhanced F-250 7.3 Diesel SRW For Years, and always worried about panic stops in traffic (as above). Electromagnetic trailer brake systems are Price Point Items. The Truth is, most people spend a lot more time fussing over the TV, Kitchen & Stereo when they’re buying their RV than they worry about those “silly labels”. So Manufacturers generally “bend to the trend” and give the Customers what they want, at a little more than they expect to pay “but Honey, I Love the Kitchen...”

After several close encounters of the Insurance Claim Kind, my fat overloaded trailer broke the two remaining Supplemental Shock Absorber supports on the road, creating Sparks(!) and a Horrendous Noise as the offended Shock pushed it’s dragging broken leg into the oncoming pavement. Poking around in the “underworld” of suspension components while parked at a distant edge of the Costco parking lot (only spots left!) in Jacksonville, I Also noticed that my leaf springs were Frowning, not Smiling... Hmmm, time for a Cash Transfusion.

After Due Diligence, I decided to upgrade my stock 7000# axles with electromagnetic drum brakes, fore & aft Shocks, & rotted Mor-Ryde Suspension, to Dexter 8000# axles with Hydraulic Disc Brakes. There was no Dexter dealer who could accommodate us over nite as Full-Timers, but we were referred to a trailer builder/country boy who did the deed over a weekend for $6400.

Sorry for the rambling narrative, but if you’re still with me, you must have enjoyed some of it...

Epilogue: I’m no longer Pushed by the trailer, even in a Panic Stop. Everybody worries about ”Towing Capabilities” and “Weights”, but I’m here to Testify that the only thing that matters is not crashing into the vehicle in front of you with your unstoppable combo. Hydraulic Disc Brakes are endorsed by every performance automobile manufacturer, and should be also furnished by every responsible RV Manufacturer... oh, I think we isolated the problem - Sales are Always a higher Priority than Safety! As Consumers, we assume that THEY know what they’re doing, and drive off blithely into the (perhaps our last) Sunset. It is called Ransom... pay up or die.

[mike5511]

Don't take it to Camping World over there. There is a decent repair place over there I've heard. I can't remember the name of it right now. I'll find out if you need me to. Just send me a PM.

[VocalVirgo]

Originally Posted by jacknife

Just convert to disc. By the time you are done paying to fix everything you will spend about the same money. If handy you can install yourself for more then 1300 to 1500. Another 800 to 1000 to have installed . No magnets no wiring no problems. You will stop much better.

I agree with this 100%.
And also, don't beat yourself up about it. Sh*t happens. We all do something dumb at some point. #BeingHuman

[Krbjmpr]

As others have suggested, take your rig to a trailer dealer and not RV dealer. Have them inspect drums, shoes, magnets, etc, ×REPLACE× bearings. Seriously. If you are gonna have the labor done to pull / clean / inspect bearings with possible replacement, just replace the darn things. Bearings are not expensive. Give the trailer dealer a heads up with a pic of the axle tag. That goes s long way to making sure they have Timken parts on hand, or another well known brand versus a DuraFail or other house brand. See if a double lip seal aka Maine boat seal is available. Upgrade if it is, especially if you have ezlube.


If its been a while since brakes have been done, you might even think about having new brake plate assemblies installed. Axle tag mandatory as they will likely have to order. Make sure you specify when brake plates are installed that they are attaching magnets to axle wiring and not pigtailing onto existing magnet wire that was cut loose. Have old plates rebuilt eventually for spares.


I have always replaced my plates, rebuilt the 'old's ones on the bench (much much easier), and readjusted tension / preload on the shoes. Castle nut & thread is marked where I like the bearing load / tightness all snugged up I even go so far as to spin the drums with a homemade adapter chucked into my drill and apply brakes (old brake controller used with old battery) to pre-burnish / break in the pads. My plates are all marked with wheel position, and I always carry at least 1 full set of spare bearings and races.


I am at position that I can do a roadside complete brake swap in about an hour. Bench time not included.

[Krbjmpr]

Forgot to mention.
I tied a 12v red marker light (high brightness 912 led bulb) into the brake side of the breakaway switch. Physically mounted to where it shines into rearview mirror. I have an electronic flasher also wired in, but you may not need that. Works fantastic at night to warn of breakaway occurring. I found the warning light is hard to see during the day and added the electronic flasher. Still had a hard time seeing so I added a veryvsnnoying 130db Mallory Sonalert piezobuzzer. If the light doesn't get my attention, the buzzer would. Even over the sound of the pre-powerstroke 7.3L.



To take things 1 step further, I added a current meter into the *ground* side of trailer brake wiring. Before I depart, I pull the pin to make sure light comes on, buzzer makes noise, switch works, and can see the total current running through the magnets. 10% deviation of 11.7A at 13.8vdc and I am happy. Anything less or more and I investigate why. Usually something I ran over that severed the magnet wires.