Open up overhang / pinbox area

[KirkDB]

Hi folks,

I'm queued up for some repair work on my 2017 KZ Venom. Coming home from our trip AK we experienced what we believe was frame damage with seems to be at times miss represented as frame flex.Im working with KZ to determine if we need a weld repair and possible gussets added or if this is really frame flex requiring more extensive work. Since this issue occurred last year we have been parked for some seasonal work here in AZ. I've been itching to open up the overhand (underneath side) to see if I can determine where the broken welds or beems are. My KZ customer service rep said go for it if I wanted to do it as long as I could get it closed back up.

My question .... how big of a job is this? On the surface it appears like I will need to remove the trim and cut away some sealant. But I've read that this is a pretty tedious job. is that true?

Also, does anyone have a video or some photos as to what is involved?

Thanks,

Kirk

[LAKnox]

Originally Posted by KirkDB

Hi folks,

I'm queued up for some repair work on my 2017 KZ Venom. Coming home from our trip AK we experienced what we believe was frame damage with seems to be at times miss represented as frame flex.Im working with KZ to determine if we need a weld repair and possible gussets added or if this is really frame flex requiring more extensive work. Since this issue occurred last year we have been parked for some seasonal work here in AZ. I've been itching to open up the overhand (underneath side) to see if I can determine where the broken welds or beems are. My KZ customer service rep said go for it if I wanted to do it as long as I could get it closed back up.

My question .... how big of a job is this? On the surface it appears like I will need to remove the trim and cut away some sealant. But I've read that this is a pretty tedious job. is that true?

Also, does anyone have a video or some photos as to what is involved?

Thanks,

Kirk

Have you checked Youtube for vids on doing this?

Lyle

[KirkDB]

I did ... wasn’t able to find anything. That’s why I’m asking here

[450Donn]

Pull the corner trim, and look. There may be some screws or simply adhesive holding the belly in place. On my Cedar Creek the plastic was glued in place and the glue had failed allowing water to accumulate. By carwfully opening up one side and using a light you might be able to see the frame. More likely your going to wind up pulling the entire fromt end off to access the damage. At least thats the normal procedure, remove the front cap and the panel on the overhang. Strip the insulation etc to see the frame. If its bad thats what going to happen anyhow. Your best to get it to a knowledgable shop and let them have at it.

[mobilemike]

Curiosity is a killer isn't it.

I would go for it but you most likely will not like what you find.

I doubt there is a frame made that doesn't need gussets.

From the pictures I have seen, if the builders found someone besides a three year old to do the welding things would improve immensely.

[Daycruiser]

Originally Posted by mobilemike

From the pictures I have seen, if the builders found someone besides a three year old to do the welding things would improve immensely.

Lippert isn't going to like you

[keymastr]

I would hold off and let the pros do it, besides you would need to secure it again when you move it to a repair shop. There will be more damage than just near the pin box. You will need a hoist to take the cap off.

[KirkDB]

Well I decided not to pull it. My overhang underside is held in by trim which is sealed with silicone or similar adhesive as well as a handful of screws. The underside is metal and is 3 pieces including a small section near the cap, a mid section that extends towards the front storage compartment and another section that encompasses the storage compartment. It would have been relatively easy to remove the trim and take down the mid section.

However, before we travel to Indiana (if required), we would need to have any weld issues repaired. Therefore, someone else needs to open it up to do the repair. So, it didn’t make sense for me to rip it apart. The more laborious part being the cleanup of the adhesive and reassembly. Opening it up actually seemed easy the way mine is made in sections. Anyhow, Ill post some photos once it gets opened.

Thanks for all the feedback,

Kirk

[mobilemike]

Originally Posted by Daycruiser

Lippert isn't going to like you

Pictures dont lie.

[keymastr]

Hopefully they can make it strong enough to get you to Indiana. Might have to empty your stuff out of it to lighten the load though.

[Edd505]

They will need to remove the front cap and check how much flex is there, 3/8 inch as I recall. They did a friends at the KZ rally 2 years ago & checked a second one that was with in specs. The one out of spec was reinforced with added supports.

[egwilly]

Our ORV cap was removed under a frame recall in 2016 for possible weld issues due to one customer had a failure of the pin box. They had to install some gussets and rework some weld seams.

They told me it was a 2 day job at a trailer repair facility that does this all the time. They mentioned the prep work, cutting and resealing the cap took the most time. Trim had to be replaced and resealed. Very important area to make sure no water intrusion at all. None allowed. I think they use butyl sealant in this area like windshields in autos and trucks.

Definitely not a job to do in the driveway unless you have someway to remove and restrain the cap while the repair takes place.

Please let us know how it goes when completed.

[Paul R. Haller]

I have an older 38ft quad slide 5 er that suffered a front cross member failure. In trying to access the damage I took off al the overhang to reveal the frame crack about2 inches from the pin box. Once I saw the damage to affect repair I removed all inside cabinetry and removed all the screws securing the front cap except those on top. Then rocked the front cap forward. I then removed all carpeting and removed the floor that was screwed down to the frame. The entire front crossmember was removed from the sides and at the pin box. Lots of cutting with a hand grinder.

The original cross member was a 6x2 c channel in 1/8 and in my opinion undersized. I replaced the wimpy C channel with an 8x2 box beam in 1/4 steel and welded in diaginal bracing and gussets. The welding, cutting, and rewelding took about 3 days of work with a large Miller dynasty wire feed welder. after the frame was in I then added 1/8 x4 plate to all the bottoms of the frame so trim and front cap could be screwed into the plate rather then the frame to prevent stress risers from the holes drilled into the frame.

The front cap was winched back into place and the Frame plate drilled and tapped through the cap for 1/4 by 28 Stainless screws and washers through a backer of 1/4 x1&1/4 steel plate and screwed into place through the fiberglass cap. All remaining screws were then placed through the sides of the cap through a transition and into the aluminum super structure and calked into place. The original OSB untreated floor was replaced using marine grade 3/4 inch plywood covered in house wrap to prevent moisture intrusion and screwed down. The space inside the frame rails was then filled with two layers of 3 inches of rigid foam and the overhang drilled and tapped through backer strips and the overhang aluminum sheeting, was screwed in place.
Then, the interior carpet and cabinet work went all back together. All in all, a pretty ambitious repair.

I just took her out for its maiden road trip last week. All is well. Total cost for steel, screws, wood, and cutting oil, and taps etc, was about 1500$ and perhaps 150 hours work including a wooden built gantry to hold up the front cap while welding. While I was in there I rewired the cabinets for automatic on lights when opening the cabinet doors and new 120 volt outlets with usb ports for phone charging in the bedroom. I also replaced the front AC low profile system which had finally failed. That was a further 500 dollars. I submitted a claim to insurance but typically was denied with them saying the original damage was not caused by an accidental collision and they do not cover routine failures.

I have never had a frame failure in any car or truck. This is a Lippert built frame of poor quality. You should have seen the welds Lippert did. A howler monkey could have done better with no training. The penetration of the welds was non existent. I have no past experience fixing trailers but have extensive experience restoring both exotic and American made muscle cars and as a fabricator. I have all my own tools.

[mjdenn]

Lippert does not design the frame. The trailer manufacture is responsible for that. So to be fair both must be held responsible.