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Old 07-08-2020, 01:39 PM   #1
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Titan Disc Brake Failure

I installed Titan disc brakes on my fifth wheel back in August 2016, and they've provided thousands of miles of significantly improved stopping power over the factory drums.

We pulled out of a boondocking site a couple days ago. I performed my customary manual test when pulling out of the site, then noticed a few miles down the road that the braking felt off. On a mild downhill, I manually actuated the trailer brakes, felt the rig slow a bit, and then felt all braking cease. Pulled over, got out, and walked around the trailer to find brake fluid pouring out the rear door side tire. I assumed it was rodent damage and crawled under the trailer to check, but the lines were dry. Had my wife go actuate the brakes for me while I was looking and it started pouring out of the caliper over the disc.

Hobbled down the road a bit and found another good boondocking site for a few days, pulled the tire and caliper off to inspect. I determined the cause to be a failed piston seal.

Click image for larger version

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I called Performance Trailer Braking, who I originally bought the discs from, even though they're long out of warranty. For a little over $100, they sent out a new caliper and a spare piston seal via 2-day shipping to a nearby town, to be delivered Friday.

In the mean time, I started doing a bit of research and found this in the Titan/Kodiak documentation:

Click image for larger version

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ID:	292354

The local NAPA (only auto parts store within an hour's drive) doesn't stock parts for those, but I went ahead and had them "Ship to Store" a couple replacement seals and dust boots, and added a few quarts of fluid, brake cleaner, and a tubing I can use for bleeding the system to the order, also to be picked up Friday.

My plan is to rebuild this caliper to keep as a spare and replace the failed one with the new unit I'll be receiving. In the future, I'm going to be sure to carry tubing to bleed the system with a pair of caps for the feed lines, so I can cap off one axle at a time in a pinch and still have some trailer assisted braking. For some reason, brakes are not one of the systems I thought to assemble spares for.

--

We were lucky that this happened when and where it did, and we were able to safely find a place to stay without high speeds or steep grades involved. This wasn't one of the failure modes I ever considered - I always assumed the pump to be the most likely thing to fail.

It's nice to know that you can find off-the-shelf parts that will fit these brakes, though actual fitment is yet to be verified. I don't expect any issues but did place the additional parts order I mentioned with NAPA so I could personally verify for all of $6.99. I also assume you could probably purchase one of their $50 remanufactured caliper assemblies in a pinch, if something else were to fail on one. More importantly, though, this was another lesson for me as to what information to have on hand (parts compatibility) and spares to carry, for future issues with the system. Most trailers don't have discs, and as such, I doubt many RV shops stock parts.

Also, as with most things on an RV, I believe you should have a basic understanding of how things work so you can diagnose and correct issues yourself. I don't want to know what it would have cost us in either time or money to have a remote tech come out and look at this.

I have no idea how this seal failed after years of trouble-free service. The dust boot was in great condition and I didn't see any signs of contaminants in there.
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Old 07-08-2020, 01:51 PM   #2
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I think that's pretty good service from the Performance Trailer Braking company
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Old 07-08-2020, 01:54 PM   #3
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I think that's pretty good service from the Performance Trailer Braking company
Yeah, no complaints from us. They worked with us to get the part out faster than usual and I feel the cost was reasonable.
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Old 07-08-2020, 02:01 PM   #4
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I got my kit from them too...glad to hear about their customer service!
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Old 07-08-2020, 02:02 PM   #5
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Great write-up and thanks for sharing. I had Kodiak on my former Cameo but only had that rig 18 months. Six years on the Dexter disc equipped Lifestyle. I have often wondered what I'd do in a situation like yours. Dexter parts, particularly pads, are not as readily available as Kodiak. At the least, I've thought of getting a couple of extra flexible hoses in case one was taken out by a blow-out, rodent, etc. I replaced my bleeder screws with speed bleeders (love them), change the brake fluid about every 18 months (live in FL) and carry the bleeder tube, bottle and extra fluid.
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Old 07-08-2020, 02:08 PM   #6
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Great write-up and thanks for sharing. I had Kodiak on my former Cameo but only had that rig 18 months. Six years on the Dexter disc equipped Lifestyle. I have often wondered what I'd do in a situation like yours. Dexter parts, particularly pads, are not as readily available as Kodiak. At the least, I've thought of getting a couple of extra flexible hoses in case one was taken out by a blow-out, rodent, etc. I replaced my bleeder screws with speed bleeders (love them), change the brake fluid about every 18 months (live in FL) and carry the bleeder tube, bottle and extra fluid.
This is my list of things to keep on hand, so far:

- 2x piston seals
- 2x dust boots
- 2x cans brake cleaner
- 2x quarts brake fluid
- 2x flexible hoses
- 2x caps to cap off lines and leave calipers on one axle disconnected
- bleeder hose

I don't really see the need to carry spare pads, but if they're that difficult to come by, maybe not a bad idea. I think that list should have everything needed to get you going again in a pinch, even if just to a service location for a more permanent fix. I just checked into those speed bleeders, and will definitely be upgrading at some point.
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:13 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by n0arp View Post
My plan is to rebuild this caliper to keep as a spare and replace the failed one with the new unit I'll be receiving.
Be aware most of the time there is a left and right caliper. The difference between the two is placement of the bleeder to always keep it to where it can bleed the air off the top. You might need to purchase a spare for the other side as well.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:30 AM   #8
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Be aware most of the time there is a left and right caliper. The difference between the two is placement of the bleeder to always keep it to where it can bleed the air off the top. You might need to purchase a spare for the other side as well.

One of the differences between these vs the automotive ones that you can interchange parts with is dual bleeder screws so you can have either orientation. Same part for both sides.
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Old 07-09-2020, 09:20 AM   #9
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I've done all my brake work on all my vehicles since a teen as well as for family and friends. I would find out why that seal failed and inspect the other calipers. NFW should that fail so early. Are there signs of burning? Melted seals would be different and not necessarily a defective seal and/or seat.
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Old 07-09-2020, 09:28 AM   #10
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I've done all my brake work on all my vehicles since a teen as well as for family and friends. I would find out why that seal failed and inspect the other calipers. NFW should that fail so early. Are there signs of burning? Melted seals would be different and not necessarily a defective seal and/or seat.
No signs of burning, melting, or heat. Only signs of damage aside from the seal itself were flakes of the seal material sitting in the cavity. No burrs or tactile defects in the casting or on the piston. I have two theories of what caused the failure:
  • Even though the dust boot appeared to be in great condition, a particle may have gotten in there and eventually rubbed through the seal
  • The seal had a small abrasion from the factory (as I never touched the seal, it's installed and covered by the dust boot as it ships) that grew over time, and eventually failed altogether
I think the second is the more likely explanation, as there is no damage to the seal other than in what would have been between the the two and three-o-clock positions as mounted.
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Old 07-09-2020, 09:39 AM   #11
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No signs of burning, melting, or heat. Only signs of damage aside from the seal itself were flakes of the seal material sitting in the cavity. No burrs or tactile defects in the casting or on the piston. I have two theories of what caused the failure:
  • Even though the dust boot appeared to be in great condition, a particle may have gotten in there and eventually rubbed through the seal
  • The seal had a small abrasion from the factory (as I never touched the seal, it's installed and covered by the dust boot as it ships) that grew over time, and eventually failed altogether

I think the second is the more likely explanation, as there is no damage to the seal other in what would have been the 2-o-clock position.

The last theory sounds more plausible. Maybe the material itself was bad too. The dust boots will normally burn first from heavy braking. Hopefully it is a one-off problem and not a problem with a batch of seals.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:04 AM   #12
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Just had to buy the retro-fit Titans for this rig.....every rotor was cracked, and calipers were starting to leak.....the early models used pads from a VW Fox, or a Ferrari.....this set take the GM style pads, with thicker rotors and cast caliper brackets.....went thru Eastern Marine....and the ones I took off had 4 cross country trips....
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by n0arp View Post
I installed Titan disc brakes on my fifth wheel back in August 2016, and they've provided thousands of miles of significantly improved stopping power over the factory drums.

We pulled out of a boondocking site a couple days ago. I performed my customary manual test when pulling out of the site, then noticed a few miles down the road that the braking felt off. On a mild downhill, I manually actuated the trailer brakes, felt the rig slow a bit, and then felt all braking cease. Pulled over, got out, and walked around the trailer to find brake fluid pouring out the rear door side tire. I assumed it was rodent damage and crawled under the trailer to check, but the lines were dry. Had my wife go actuate the brakes for me while I was looking and it started pouring out of the caliper over the disc.

Hobbled down the road a bit and found another good boondocking site for a few days, pulled the tire and caliper off to inspect. I determined the cause to be a failed piston seal.

Attachment 292353

I called Performance Trailer Braking, who I originally bought the discs from, even though they're long out of warranty. For a little over $100, they sent out a new caliper and a spare piston seal via 2-day shipping to a nearby town, to be delivered Friday.

In the mean time, I started doing a bit of research and found this in the Titan/Kodiak documentation:

Attachment 292354

The local NAPA (only auto parts store within an hour's drive) doesn't stock parts for those, but I went ahead and had them "Ship to Store" a couple replacement seals and dust boots, and added a few quarts of fluid, brake cleaner, and a tubing I can use for bleeding the system to the order, also to be picked up Friday.

My plan is to rebuild this caliper to keep as a spare and replace the failed one with the new unit I'll be receiving. In the future, I'm going to be sure to carry tubing to bleed the system with a pair of caps for the feed lines, so I can cap off one axle at a time in a pinch and still have some trailer assisted braking. For some reason, brakes are not one of the systems I thought to assemble spares for.

--

We were lucky that this happened when and where it did, and we were able to safely find a place to stay without high speeds or steep grades involved. This wasn't one of the failure modes I ever considered - I always assumed the pump to be the most likely thing to fail.

It's nice to know that you can find off-the-shelf parts that will fit these brakes, though actual fitment is yet to be verified. I don't expect any issues but did place the additional parts order I mentioned with NAPA so I could personally verify for all of $6.99. I also assume you could probably purchase one of their $50 remanufactured caliper assemblies in a pinch, if something else were to fail on one. More importantly, though, this was another lesson for me as to what information to have on hand (parts compatibility) and spares to carry, for future issues with the system. Most trailers don't have discs, and as such, I doubt many RV shops stock parts.

Also, as with most things on an RV, I believe you should have a basic understanding of how things work so you can diagnose and correct issues yourself. I don't want to know what it would have cost us in either time or money to have a remote tech come out and look at this.

I have no idea how this seal failed after years of trouble-free service. The dust boot was in great condition and I didn't see any signs of contaminants in there.
It could be a fluke or damage upon initial assembly of the piston. The pic isn't that clear and it looks like the seal cooked a bit. Only you can see the dust seal ,rotor and pad condition.

Good maintenance practice on all hydraulic brakes is fluid replacement every 2-3 years for DOT3 fluid and every 2 years for DOT4 fluid. This is an easy DIY procedure and can cost 10$ or less.

Not sure if your brake setup is dual chamber as are all automotive ones in the past 60 years, but if not, that is a terrible drawback to the system. Electric brakes typically fail on one wheel at a time although if the main wire feeding all 2,4, or 6 brakes broke or disconnected you wouldn't have any brakes either.

I'd make sure your brakes aren't dragging at all and pads are free in the carrier. Bluish rotors indicate hot brakes. Cracking, surface cracking and such indicate VERY overheated and overworked brakes.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:13 PM   #14
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Just had to buy the retro-fit Titans for this rig.....every rotor was cracked, and calipers were starting to leak.....the early models used pads from a VW Fox, or a Ferrari.....this set take the GM style pads, with thicker rotors and cast caliper brackets.....went thru Eastern Marine....and the ones I took off had 4 cross country trips....

2,800 * 4, 11k miles?
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