Community Forums

texcwa · 09-01-2019, 02:00 PM

New member here with an electric brake issue

I have a Vanleigh Vilano 320GK and have been investigating a brake issue where I have found that I have low voltage (at the brake) even with the controller set at max or when testing with the emergency breakaway, I was wondering if someone on this site could do me a huge favor. If anyone has a 320GK (or sim.) and the Tekonsha P3 Brake Control could you check the amperage draw through the troubleshooting function on the controller. It is easy to do, just hook up your RV, set the gain to the highest (14), use the menu button and select troubleshooting. There you can scroll through various functions of the controller. I am entrusted in the amp function. Check with the manual brake lever pulled over and the amp draw will appear on the controller. Maybe you could do a couple of readings at a couple of gain settings like 14, 12 & 10 so I can compare with what I am getting.

Thanks*

450Donn · 09-01-2019, 02:56 PM

Have you adjusted the trailer brakes? Over the 35 years we RVd I always found bad brakes equaled poor adjustment.

Old-Biscuit · 09-01-2019, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450Donn

Have you adjusted the trailer brakes? Over the 35 years we RVd I always found bad brakes equaled poor adjustment.

Low voltage???

At full battery voltage (emergency pin pulled) each brake magnet gets 3A MAX
Emergency Pin should NOT be pulled with truck/trailer umbilical cord attached....can cause issues with some brake controllers

IF you are having low voltage and bad braking with Emergency pin pulled........along with wires/connections to brakes need to check trailer battery voltage
Should be able to supply FULL Battery voltage for 15 mins with emergency pin pulled

Course voltage/amps is all you can check by pulling emergency pin.......braking has to have trailer in motion to actuate the shoes against drums

Bad wires, bad wire connections, worn magnets

texcwa · 09-01-2019, 11:32 PM

Thanks for the replies.

First a bit of history, the RV is brand new, still has not been used. It has self adjusting brakes on both axles.

After towing the RV home from the dealer approx 75 miles (had no issues) I went to an empty lot to fine tune the brake controller. I had read that I should set the gain to when the RV wheels just lock up then back off. I could not get them to lock up but it did stop my truck (slowly) using the manual brake lever.

I then ran the trouble shooting function on my controller and found that I had less than a 10 amp draw. The gain settings worked spot on when checking the 7 pin connector with my multi meter (ie, when gain set to 8 had 8 volts, when set to 12 had 12v ect).

I checked and verified that the controller was functioning properly as well as checked the 7 pin in truck and wire pigtail from RV, all good.

I then checked the voltage at the left front wheel (this is the first wheel connected to the power source) and found that even when setting gain to 14 I only had 9.8V at wheel. If I disconnect the magnet lead wires I have full volts in harness.

I then checked all the brakes individually and found the following:

Amps – LF 2.78 amps, LR 2.85 amps, RF 2.91 amps, RR 2.80 amps

Ohms – LF 3.1 ohms, LR 3.1 ohms, RF 3.2 ohms, RR 3.2 ohms

At this point, Lippert sent out a Tech to inspect the RV. He ran sim. tests and had same results. He also pulled all 4 wheels and inspected the magnets.

At first we thought it may be a grounding issue so I ran a new 10ga dedicated ground wire to the brakes (no change)

Then the Lippert Tech thought it was likely a small short in the blue power wire so I ran a new 12ga (same size as original). After completely running all new wires (I can now rule out any shorts) I still had 9.8 V at the front left wheel (with all magnets attached) but my amperage reading on my controller (in the trouble shooting mode again) is up to 11.9 amps (this would equal the 3 amps per magnet X4)

I am starting to believe that the 12ga wire is not big enough but I am getting the amp draw I believe I should have. All wire ga calculators with a 30-35 foot run and a 12-15 amp draw shows that I may need a 10 or 8ga wire (but the manufacturers use 12ga).

The above is why I was hoping someone with the same type of controller with the Vilano 320GK could check what their amp draw is as stated in my original post.

I apologize for this lengthy post but just want to make sure I do not have a real issue.

Thanks again.

Old-Biscuit · 09-02-2019, 09:39 AM

Self adjusting brakes NEED to be maually adjusted initially and then 'burnished' (broke in--shoes to drum/magnet to drum)

You are getting close to 3A at each wheel so you should be getting full braking

Full lock of wheels.....
Many trailers can not achieve that unless on gravel or dirt
I can't lock my 5th wheel brakes and drag the tires unless I am on dirt/gravel but they do slow truck/trailer down w/o locking up the tires

I'm not so sure you are haivng actual braking issues
Voltage should be 'proportional' based on need/decelleration

Manually adjust brakes.......see pg 13
Burnish brakes..................see pg 11 last paragraph
Wire size..........................see pg 11 Chart

http://trailerparts.com/pdfs/Dexter122.pdf

clifford j · 09-02-2019, 09:52 AM

I like the suggestion "your brakes aren't broke in yet". If you look at the shoes you'll see that there are spots not yet in contact with the drum. Nor do the shoes actually have the same diameter as the drums yet. More use will produce better more efficient stopping.

CLIFFORD

Persistent · 09-02-2019, 10:20 AM

I think you answered your own question. You have excessive voltage drop between the brake controller and wheels. You have bare minimum wire size.

I changed my ground and 7 pin 12 v battery line to 8 gage wire on both my TT and TV. I did this to get a lot better battery charging while driving.

You would get both better charging and better breaking. I could not find a high capacity 7 pin socket and plug so reduced wire for connecting to them at the connection point. You would have to do the same with the break controller positive wire.

I have a single axle TT so only two break magnets. I did not and still do not have a breaking issue. But, increasing the wire size will decrease line loss.

keymastr · 09-02-2019, 12:47 PM

My new trailer did not achieve full braking for a few thousand miles. It slowly got better until nearly 10,000 miles I had to turn down the controller. I don't think you have a problem and the differences in your voltages and resistance measurements confirm that. If it were me I would load it up and travel for awhile and relax. Mine would not lock up when new either but will now, hence the reason I had to back off the controller.

texcwa · 09-02-2019, 01:41 PM

Thank you all for your reply's. I learned about Burnishing the brakes only after picking up the RV, this is something the RV dealer should of told me about. I figured that the 75 mile drive home both with hills and stop and go traffic will have burnished them.

When the Lippert tech took off each wheel for his inspection, we did notice that the brakes appeared to be adjusted well. The hubs were solid with the pads, rubbing when taking them off a bit and showed evidence of brake pad dust, wear also looked even and good. Also, no grease splatter on pads or drum.

Although it looks like I am getting a voltage drop due to wire size, all your comments on trailer brakes not locking up, the fact that I have the proper amp draw at each break and everyone seems to experience the same thing of the brakes becoming more aggressive as they break in makes me feel a bit more comfortable.

If after a few trips I feel that the breaks are working as expected I will leave them alone, if not, I may up the wire size to 10ga or even 8ga.

One last question, when re-wiring the brakes, the only wire I did not replace was the power wire that comes from RV batteries to the breakaway switch. This wire has a 15 amp fuse on it. I did not install any fuses or circuit breakers on the new 12ga blue wire back to the breaks since I did not see any on the original wiring and the truck 7-pin assembly is protected within its wiring. Is this correct? Do I need any fuses or circuit breakers between the RV hitch and brakes?

Thanks again, you all have been very helpful.

texcwa · 09-02-2019, 01:56 PM

Old-Biscuit, thanks for the reference material. I did look at the below pages:

Manually adjust brakes.......see pg 13
Burnish brakes..................see pg 11 last paragraph
Wire size..........................see pg 11 Chart

The one thing on figuring the wire size based on length is that its not a direct measurement from hitch to axle since the routing of the wire added about 25% to its length plus you have the length of the wires coming from the front of truck through to hitch. my RV is 32' (actually measures 36') and I needed just over 32' of new wire to rout it to back axle (not including the two additional runs of wires through both axles to get to right side of RV which by the way is only 14ga wire).

jdpm · 09-04-2019, 04:52 PM

Are you sure your brakes are not covered in grease?
Yes, I know it's new but dealers are notorious for using the ez lubes prior to delivering and blowing out the seals.
Also, there have been posts about those with Lippert axles having grease contaminated brakes.
It they have grease on them, they won't hold despite voltage.
My former rig w as delivered to me with grease contaminated brakes. Dealer had to replace them. Good luck.

Bob_C · 09-04-2019, 05:07 PM

Op stated that factory guy inspected them...

clifford j · 09-04-2019, 06:21 PM

Grease on brake shoes ,or pad's will smell when heated, smoke in some cases and also cause lock-up when brakes are applied. Ok theory about a dealer over greasing bearings , but my thought is they wouldn't do that because it cost's money and time.

CLIFFORD

texcwa · 09-04-2019, 10:34 PM

My issue is not that the brakes do not work, its that even when setting the full gain on my controller (which I have measured puts out 13+V to the brakes at the full setting of 14), as soon as the brakes activate (draw amps) my voltage drops to around 9.4V. (The same is true if I use the breakaway off house batteries), so I need to set my gain at max in order to get the 3+ amps per brake.

If I set the gain down to like 10, then my amp draw drops way down to about 8+ (total for all 4 brakes)

When talking to both the manufacturer "Vanleigh" and "Lippert", they both say I should have between 11.5V - 12.5V when brakes are activated.

So my concern is by pushing the full voltage to breaks and with the load causing the voltage drop, could I overheat the wires causing a complete brake loss?