Weight Limit ?

[Palmeris]

Current Tow vehicle is a 2014 Ford f450 Platinum
Specs:
GCWR=33,000 LBS
5TH Towing capacity =24,700 LBS
GVWR = 14,000 LBS
Front GAWR =5940 LBS
Rear GAWR =9100 LBS

CATS - weighed with 38 gallon tank full, DEF full, Driver and DW, assorted tools, jacks, spare tire ...
Gross = 9220 LBS
Steer = 5160 LBS
Drive = 4060 LBS

Custom 5ver toy hauler, statement from manufacture regarding weights....
...our 41' 5th wheel trailers will weight near 19,000 lbs. dry and offer a GVWR of 23,000 lbs. The average hitch weight for that length could be near the 5,000 lbs.

4000 LBS of cargo would consist of 1000 LBS of Harley Davidson and gear, so that leaves about 3000 LBS for everything else which seems within the terms of realistic...clothes, food, supplies, gasoline, propane, water, batteries for solar....

If my math and understanding is correct here is how the number add up..

GCWR =32,220 LBS = 780 LBS margin
Towing = 23,00 LBS = 1,700 LBS margin
GVWR =14220 = 220 LBS over weight
Rear GAWR =9060 = 40 LBS margin


So it seems that the F450 GVWR will be exceeed by 220 lbs if we fully load the trailer to its max GVWR given the presumed weights of the 5ver...of course they could be higher than estimated or they could be lower wont know for sure until its loaded and on the scale..

I presume the entire pin weight will be on the drive axle or will some of it get distributed to the steer axles?

Regardless this rig configuration would be right up to the limit of the tow vehicle but could probably be managed by the amount of cargo as to not exceed the limits....

Part of me says if I'm under the limits no problem... and part of me says don't push it and either get a bigger truck or lighter rig.

Looking forward to the 5ver community "weighing in" on this - What does real life have to say in this case?

[diesel2121]

Srw or drw?

[BFlinn181]

I'm sure folks will come along and say you're O.K., they've towed for "thousands of miles with no problems."

I personally would reduce the number of toys or the RV size. I know it's still within limits, but those limits are set for ideal conditions. What about when a tire is worn or weakened? Springs or shocks a bit worn? I'd rather not be fighting a rig that close to the limits with my family and possessions.

JMHO

[Brad W]

I'm with BFlinn in that I prefer to be within the stated numbers

If you go to a Ford site (I frequent Ford-Trucks.com), there are a lot of folks that will state the numbers on these Fords are understated, and would feel particularly comfortable with such a low number in overage.

At least with the 450 you have the commercial brakes

Deisel21 - all 450's are DRW

[JIMNLIN]

GCWR =32,220 LBS = 780 LBS margin
Towing = 23,00 LBS = 1,700 LBS margin
GVWR =14220 = 220 LBS over weight
Rear GAWR =9060 = 40 LBS margin

Some times in the mid to late '00s Ford neutered the F450 pickup from a 11000 RAWR for a smoother ride to the same 9xxx as the F350 DRW. Being a heavier truck the newer F450 pickup actually has less payload than the newer F350 DRW truck. The trucks suspension is the problem....not the engine/tranny/front or rear axles or the frame.
I'm not up on modding a F450 rear suspension to carry more weight safely but you might try some of the truck camper webs for their input as they carry 5k-6k truck camper and gear.
Or a big rig spring shop near you may be of help with the spring packs.

[CecilD]

Wow. Personally, it would raise my blood pressure taking all my specs right to the limit. I would have a nagging feeling and probably wouldn't enjoy the towing experience. I know it is emotional and not quantitative but that is how I would feel. I like large safety margins when it comes to tires and axles. I applaud your boldness.

One thing to consider is 32,000# and a 38 gallon tank. You are going to want an auxiliary but won't have the rear axle capacity.

[mrgrayaz]

the question is - are you going to be at GVWR on the trailer?

While planning for the worst is an excellent idea, I have yet to hit GVWR on my Alfa in day to day use, and we full time. And boondock.. Alot..which means we have full tanks, alot.

With a trailer with a cheesy CCC of 1300lbs (and they are out there...) I wouldnt say this, but you have LOADs of capacity on that trailer.

Either way, its "potentially" 200lbs over GVWR. Look at it another way. If you absolutely load the trailer to the max, and do no weight management for your pin weight at all...you might be 1.4% over GVWR on the truck, but under GCWR, and GAWR.

Seems like a lot of worry about nothing to me. Get it, load it, scale it. If your pin is heavy, move some heavy things to the back...Even how you load the basement can make enough of a difference.

[Cypressloser]

Jim is correct, the change was made with the 2010 model year if I'm not mistaken. We had a 2008 F450 and found out later that the newer ones were "dogs", no payload. We ended up going with an F550 but I couldn't stand the transmission.
Here we go everybody - shoot me

[Old-Biscuit]

Personally I have no issues towing at trucks ratings.......Axle ratings, Tire max load ratings and GCVWR (not too concerned about GVWR ----I can purchase vehicle registration higher then mfg. GVWR so it is NOT a real issue)

My 5th wheel hitch is installed 2" forward of rear axle center line and adds 150# to front axle.
Total pin weight of my 5vr is 3080# on a 13,873# CAT Scaled weight (14,380# GVWR)
Truck Rear axle is AT its 6200# rating, rear tires are under their max load rating of 3195#/ea ---- 6390# Total.
Truck/trailer weigh 21,853#---under GCVWR of 23,000#

7 Yrs FT and 12 trips across USA traveling weekly.

Nothing wrong towing AT ratings..that is what they are for.
Stay AT/Under Axle Ratings, Tire ratings and GCVWR----good to go!

[TerryZ]

With 1000 pounds of motorcycle and gear behind the trailer axles, you may end up lighter than you think on the pin. That won't help your GCWR though.

[FastEagle]

On tow vehicles such as yours the load limiting factor is the certified GVWR.

I know you see a lot of posts where owners are using the vehicle’s total GAWR as the limiting factor.

Here’s how it’s supposed to work. It’s like the tires on a tow vehicle. The recommended cold inflation pressure for them is a percentage above the weight they are asked to carry. That extra weight is the vehicle manufacturer’s way of providing load capacity reserves. The same holds true for the GAWR values set by the vehicle manufacturer. They equal out to more than the vehicle’s GVWR. That extra weight is also a load capacity reserve.

So when an owner exceeds total GAWR they are going to be over the major limiting factor, the vehicles maximum allowable load, it’s GVWR. When an owner starts exceeding any of the vehicle’s safety parameters, bells should start ringing.

[GramPa Carso]

If you are worried about it, don't do it. Get a bigger pick-up (F-550) or a smaller trailer.
I travel at 75% of all axle weights. ie. 75% of GVWR That allows me a large margin on the brakes.
There is a limited amount of room to stop. Do you want to push it?

[Palmeris]

Originally Posted by diesel2121

Srw or drw?

F450=DRW

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Some times in the mid to late '00s Ford neutered the F450 pickup from a 11000 RAWR for a smoother ride to the same 9xxx as the F350 DRW. Being a heavier truck the newer F450 pickup actually has less payload than the newer F350 DRW truck. The trucks suspension is the problem....not the engine/tranny/front or rear axles or the frame.
I'm not up on modding a F450 rear suspension to carry more weight safely but you might try some of the truck camper webs for their input as they carry 5k-6k truck camper and gear.
Or a big rig spring shop near you may be of help with the spring packs.

Yes I was thinking about this, with that much weight may get some sag and may need to add air bags for that, driving this truck with no load its real stiff, hard to imagine putting bigger springs on it...

Originally Posted by CecilD

Wow. Personally, it would raise my blood pressure taking all my specs right to the limit. I would have a nagging feeling and probably wouldn't enjoy the towing experience. I know it is emotional and not quantitative but that is how I would feel. I like large safety margins when it comes to tires and axles. I applaud your boldness.

One thing to consider is 32,000# and a 38 gallon tank. You are going to want an auxiliary but won't have the rear axle capacity.

yes the emotional aspect, the worry and stress is something to consider....on the other hand specs are set for a reason and if within them should I need to worry?

looking at adding the titan tank would add 27 gallons and 192 lbs so this could be managed with further reducing cargo I would think....

Originally Posted by mrgrayaz

the question is - are you going to be at GVWR on the trailer?

While planning for the worst is an excellent idea, I have yet to hit GVWR on my Alfa in day to day use, and we full time. And boondock.. Alot..which means we have full tanks, alot.

With a trailer with a cheesy CCC of 1300lbs (and they are out there...) I wouldnt say this, but you have LOADs of capacity on that trailer.

Either way, its "potentially" 200lbs over GVWR. Look at it another way. If you absolutely load the trailer to the max, and do no weight management for your pin weight at all...you might be 1.4% over GVWR on the truck, but under GCWR, and GAWR.

Seems like a lot of worry about nothing to me. Get it, load it, scale it. If your pin is heavy, move some heavy things to the back...Even how you load the basement can make enough of a difference.

The engineer in me says to plan for the worse and hope for the best....yet I think that the weights can be managed bu paying attention to cargo and how its loaded and be able to stay under the stated limits....I do think that having 4000 LBS , 3000 once we get the bike and gear in it, is very manageable.....

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Personally I have no issues towing at trucks ratings.......Axle ratings, Tire max load ratings and GCVWR (not too concerned about GVWR ----I can purchase vehicle registration higher then mfg. GVWR so it is NOT a real issue)

My 5th wheel hitch is installed 2" forward of rear axle center line and adds 150# to front axle.
Total pin weight of my 5vr is 3080# on a 13,873# CAT Scaled weight (14,380# GVWR)
Truck Rear axle is AT its 6200# rating, rear tires are under their max load rating of 3195#/ea ---- 6390# Total.
Truck/trailer weigh 21,853#---under GCVWR of 23,000#

7 Yrs FT and 12 trips across USA traveling weekly.

Nothing wrong towing AT ratings..that is what they are for.
Stay AT/Under Axle Ratings, Tire ratings and GCVWR----good to go!

That is good first hand expierence that I was looking for, thank you for that!

Originally Posted by FastEagle

On tow vehicles such as yours the load limiting factor is the certified GVWR.

I know you see a lot of posts where owners are using the vehicle’s total GAWR as the limiting factor.

Here’s how it’s supposed to work. It’s like the tires on a tow vehicle. The recommended cold inflation pressure for them is a percentage above the weight they are asked to carry. That extra weight is the vehicle manufacturer’s way of providing load capacity reserves. The same holds true for the GAWR values set by the vehicle manufacturer. They equal out to more than the vehicle’s GVWR. That extra weight is also a load capacity reserve.

So when an owner exceeds total GAWR they are going to be over the major limiting factor, the vehicles maximum allowable load, it’s GVWR. When an owner starts exceeding any of the vehicle’s safety parameters, bells should start ringing.

In this scenario we are under all limits except the potential for exceeding the GVWR which can be managed by the amount of cargo in the 5ver....

[Palmeris]

recently had to transport 2 pallets of tile, add up all the weight and was right at 5000 lbs of payload in the bed...attached is a photo... a little bit of sag in the rear but not to bad...

In this simulation the total distance driven was 25 miles - I could tell there was a load in the truck when cornering but on the straights it seemed normal- had a friend following and he did not notice anything out of the ordinary he could see the suspension traveling up and down over bumps, rail road tracks etc -

I was more aware while driving this load, gave more distance for stopping, used the tow haul mode for engine braking but didn't notice that it was any different than normal... accelerating did not seem to be any noticeable strain or anything different.

based on math was just damn close to the axel weight limit but within the payload capacity of the vehicle - overall a good pin weight simulations but not so much as to dragging a 5ver with wind resistance, trailer sway, and of course the added pulling weight.