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Old 07-16-2019, 07:41 AM   #1
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About Equalizer Bars

I have a question and a problem.
First
When I hookup to my trailer I can install my bars with my bare hands.
This is my second trailer in 3 years and neither one required a pipe to load the bars.

My new trailer that we got yesterday has some bad sway.
Now loading the bars more would that not increase the sway?

I will be going to the scales and doing a full 3 pas weigh in but I am I right about the more tension the lighter the back of my truck?

I know there are volumes on this site about sway.
Please don’t hit me with a bunch of technical questions the trailer is one day old.

On the predilevery they filled the water tank which was behind the axels, we drained it on side of the road and this helped. But a long way to go

A lot more to come.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:25 AM   #2
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The bars should take some heft to load them, or else they aren't helping.

Imagine you are standing holding the bars with your hands like a wheel barrow with the trailer hooked up. Now, with your gorilla arms, lift up. It will take weight off the rear axle, and put it on the steer. It will also put weight on your feet, right?. Now stand on the trailer A-frame... You'll put more weight on the trailer axles too. If it doesn't take a few hundred pounds of force to do it, you aren't transferring much weight.

With a WDH, you have the benefit of having a high tongue weight, without overloading of the rear axle, and keeping steering traction.

The question is now; what is your tongue weight?

And; what is the gross weight of the trailer?

Aim for over 10 percent tongue weight.

It seems that the trailer is too light up front, perhaps.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirtate View Post
The bars should take some heft to load them, or else they aren't helping.

Imagine you are standing holding the bars with your hands like a wheel barrow with the trailer hooked up. Now, with your gorilla arms, lift up. It will take weight off the rear axle, and put it on the steer. It will also put weight on your feet, right?. Now stand on the trailer A-frame... You'll put more weight on the trailer axles too. If it doesn't take a few hundred pounds of force to do it, you aren't transferring much weight.

With a WDH, you have the benefit of having a high tongue weight, without overloading of the rear axle, and keeping steering traction.

The question is now; what is your tongue weight?




And; what is the gross weight of the trailer?

Aim for over 10 percent tongue weight.

It seems that the trailer is too light up front, perhaps.

I know how the bars work and yes the front is too light.
I was just curious if others don’t require a bar to install the equalizer bars???

My last trailer never required a bar and after about 30000 miles of every interstate and mountain pass I never had a sway problem.
So saying that the bars are not working is I believe wrong.
I believe the bars would load up as required in dips in the road as I traveled.
Otherwise they were unsprung or slightly neutral.

I might add it does require some effort without a bar as did my older trailer but a bar on is absolutely not necessary.

I believe my other trailer was balanced and loaded correctly as I toured with it for three summers.

My new trailer a Windjammer 2618 cannot be loaded with many options for weight. Once I hit the scales and possibly adjust my hitch height (probably have to lower it to increase some tongue weight my only option would be to run with minimal water in the tank (which is behind the axels) and keep 1/3 tank of grey water to increase tongue weight.

Moving cargo is not an option with this trailer. I believe the axels could have been moved back a couple of inches when manufactured. (Or I could buy a couple of hundred cans of canned beans and load the font cupboards)

First time over the scale on day one.

truck weight trailer attached..........7106
Trailer axel truck attached.............6688
Total..........................................137 94
Truck and trailer Combined weight max..........15000

Because this trailer was purchased on holidays and some things are not required I won’t have an opportunity to take some weight off the truck till I get home in a month or so. But I am under the gross combined weight for the truck.

These numbers are just a start as the fun now begins.

I guess I am quite surprised to have an issue after 40 years of trailer pulling.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Lambert View Post
When I hookup to my trailer I can install my bars with my bare hands.
This is my second trailer in 3 years and neither one required a pipe to load the bars.

Then your bars are doing you absolutely no good. It's physically impossible for them to be of any use in such a scenario.


Quote:
My new trailer that we got yesterday has some bad sway.
Now loading the bars more would that not increase the sway?

That depends on why it's swaying. If your trailer is tail heavy, then you need to resolve that problem before anything else.


Quote:
I will be going to the scales and doing a full 3 pas weigh in but I am I right about the more tension the lighter the back of my truck?

That's not the right way to put it. A better way to state it would be that adding tension to the bars will decrease the weight added to your rear axle from the trailer. If you've got your bars so tight that your rear axle is actually lighter than without the trailer, you've got some serious issues.


Quote:
On the predilevery they filled the water tank which was behind the axels, we drained it on side of the road and this helped. But a long way to go
Okay, this says a lot. You are tail heavy. Only pull it with the fresh water tank empty. Also, load up that front kitchen and get some weight up there.



What truck are you pulling it with?
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:11 PM   #5
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Yes i am tail heavy not ROCKET SCIENCE is it?

Now for the weights

No trailer Truck weights

Front axle.......3476
Rear axle.........2750
Both axles.......6292

Truck Hooked up to trailer
Truck..........7106
Trailer axel...6688
Below Gross Combined weight of 1500 lbs
I am unable to determine the loaded trailer tongue weight as They will not let me unhook on the scale.

Trailer manufacture Specs are
Dry hitch weight 727

Water tank was drained and propane tanks were full when i weighed the unit.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:38 PM   #6
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When you say you don't need a bar to load the bars up I'm guessing you just mean you're able to use the jack enough to lift the tongue enough to load the hitch bars? That's not uncommon. I do that all the time.

Now if you hook a up and can just swing your WD bars on and not use the tongue jack then that's a problem and no your hitch isn't doing any good.

Yes you might need to be more nose down on the trailer. Drop your hitch one hole and see.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:35 PM   #7
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When you say you don't need a bar to load the bars up I'm guessing you just mean you're able to use the jack enough to lift the tongue enough to load the hitch bars? That's not uncommon. I do that all the time.

Now if you hook a up and can just swing your WD bars on and not use the tongue jack then that's a problem and no your hitch isn't doing any good.

Yes you might need to be more nose down on the trailer. Drop your hitch one hole and see.
No I don’t use the power jack to assist the tension on the bars. I am only using my bare hands with the tongue jack off the ground in travel position. I used to use three links on my old trailer the new trailer is 1200 lbs heavier so I started out with the same amount of links as You have to start somewhere. Because of the sway I went to two chain links on the bar.
I mean loose links not total weight carrying links so as not to confuse anyone.

The trailer is just too light on the front. I have watched about a dozen videos on you tube and there is nothing I can do as far as I can tell. Tilting the ball back will only increase the tension on the bars lightening the trailer even more.

I believe I stated that the trailer is a 2019. Forest River 2816vs Windjammer.

I am not saying the Make and Model of the Tow Vehicle because it is irrelevant. The way this sways it would sway behind a mouse or an elephant.
I don’t want the focus on the Tow vehicle but i will tell you this it is a new bought in 2017 with Trailer tow package. And i am well within the specs from the book.

I cannot believe Forest River would design a trailer like this. The axel should be moved rearward on this design.

Almost 70 years old and I have pulled numerous trailers and have never seen anything like this.

Yes I think dropping the hitch one hole might help. I am going to see if I can get this done tomorrow if not I will travel with 1/3rd tank of grey water in the front at least till I get home.

Stay tuned as the saga continues.
My wife said she would be willing to buy a bunch of new Clothes and store them in the front kitchen. HA HA!
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:31 PM   #8
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I’ve been setting my WD bars by hand with minimal raising with the tongue jack for at least 10 years. If I had to do it any other way then it’s too tight.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:50 PM   #9
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Your loaded trailer tongue weight is 814lbs as per the weights you posted which is just about right for a 7500lb trailer. Get the front axle weight with the trailer on to see if your wd is set up right ( which I doubt ). That or take measurements of the front wheel wells empty, loaded, and loaded with wd. Take the loaded and empty measurements and loaded with wd should be right in the middle. No weight on the bars does not let the friction sway controls of the equalizer or similar wd hitches to work. If you don't have sway control built into your hitch I would recommend the husky ts it is cheap and effective at reducing sway.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:14 PM   #10
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Your loaded trailer tongue weight is 814lbs as per the weights you posted which is just about right for a 7500lb trailer. Get the front axle weight with the trailer on to see if your wd is set up right ( which I doubt ). That or take measurements of the front wheel wells empty, loaded, and loaded with wd. Take the loaded and empty measurements and loaded with wd should be right in the middle. No weight on the bars does not let the friction sway controls of the equalizer or similar wd hitches to work. If you don't have sway control built into your hitch I would recommend the husky ts it is cheap and effective at reducing sway.
Thanks for your comments at this point I believe you are right.
I won’t know for a day or two.

There is some weight on the bars but really minimal.

I am going to drop my hitch one hole to see if that helps.
What are your thoughts on this?
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:31 PM   #11
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My trailer is 7500 pounds, tongue weight is close to 1000 pounds and with the tongue jack lifting the truck 6 inches or more, (nearly lifting the truck wheels off the ground), I still have to use the cheater bar to lift the bars onto the perches. What you describe would be impossible with my trailer.

Sway is usually a factor of tongue weight percentage but can be influenced by how level the trailer is when hooked up. If it is nose high it will not track as well and if it is more than an inch nose down it also will behave poorly. Level is best, check on flat ground and measure spot at each end of the long frame rails to the ground. It should be level to within 1 to 1.5 inches down at the front. It is important to get this right because even though the trailer suspension has equalizers it will still put more weight on the front axle if the nose is lower or the rear axle if the nose is higher and since trailers barely have enough axle capacity it will overload the one with more weight on it.

You may have to re-level everything a couple times because once you level it you will most likely need to readjust the hitch tension and that will effect the level of the trailer. It took me a couple hours in a flat parking lot to get it right and then after I got my scale numbers I saw that I needed 1 more washer to move a bit more weight to the front truck axle.

My loaded tongue weight is over 12% and that should also be your target tongue weight percentage. Any less and it will get sway.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:50 PM   #12
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Thanks for your comments at this point I believe you are right.

I won’t know for a day or two.



There is some weight on the bars but really minimal.



I am going to drop my hitch one hole to see if that helps.

What are your thoughts on this?
If you can slide the bars up on the brackets with all the tongue weight on the ball and no help from the tongue jack then you have no weight on the bars. If the tongue dips then yes there is a slight load but only for a sec. I think lowering the hitch one hole on the drop bar will make a difference.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:54 PM   #13
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Thanks for your comments at this point I believe you are right.
I won’t know for a day or two.

There is some weight on the bars but really minimal.

I am going to drop my hitch one hole to see if that helps.
What are your thoughts on this?
Do you have a pic with the trailer loaded? Dropping a hole only levels the trailer so if the trailer is already decently level that won't matter. Most of your issues will be in the bars and tilt I think.

If all four tires of your tow vehicle aren't firmly planted it is a lot easier for the trailer to push you around so the goal is to keep your front axle weight the same and load only the rear (or a little bit of weight on the front too). When you hang 800lbs 4 foot after the rear axle you can actually take quite a bit off of the front.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:58 PM   #14
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If you can slide the bars up on the brackets with all the tongue weight on the ball and no help from the tongue jack then you have no weight on the bars. If the tongue dips then yes there is a slight load but only for a sec. I think lowering the hitch one hole on the drop bar will make a difference.
I think you are talking about a different sway bar set up mine uses chains.
I am going to install the husky 2.
I am really impressed with the owner reviews.
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