Audi Q7 - Best bunkhouse I can safely tow?

[tuffr2]

Probably 3 things caused sway when I was towing on the highway with the Ridgeline.
1. Short wheelbase (122")
2. Truck was lighter (4,500lbs)
3. Independent suspension.

This was not overly surprising by me as the Ridgeline 'looked' small when towing.

[chboone]

Originally Posted by Trevor-T

So which WDH manufacturer claims okay to use with surge brakes?? Put a drum brake under water and it will need to dry.. if electric maybe more..
The hitch on Touaregs / Q7s is substantial, no flexing with a WDH.. no practical reason not to use one..
I see the advantage of a truck as having outside storage for a generator and gas
Trevor

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

1) Audi clearly states NOT to use a WD hitch - I'd listen to them....and I wouldn't use a WD hitch on a unibody vehicle anyhow.

2) A WD hitch will interfere with the operation of a surge brake; I have one in my fleet of 9 trailers....specifically the head needs to move to activate the master cyl. and sway bars would dampen or restrict this motion. The literature with my surge brakes specifically prohibits using WD bars.

3) Independent rear suspension is superior for handling but inferior for sway control - all other things being equal.

2 cents,
Dave

Equal-I-Zer WD hitch is compatible with Surge Brakes.
https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Wei...ual~i~zer.aspx

[DR60]

Originally Posted by BeMurda

It's just untrue that you can't tow a small travel trailer safely with this vehicle. There are thousands of people safely towing Airstreams etc with vehicles on this platform. Some are probably overweight and unsafe but still not running into issues.

Here is an 85 page thread about people towing their airstreams with their Q7's and other vehicles on the same chassis. https://www.airforums.com/forums/f46...134917-85.html

There is no way I am going to purchase a pop up, I could easily get a travel trailer under 3000lbs if necessary - but it really doesn't seem like it is.

By your own statement "Some are probably overweight and unsafe"
How will you feel if your young family is injured, permanently scared, or killed because you tried something that you know was overweight and unsafe?
A 3000lb trailer is much closer to what is a safe towing combo. DR

[propchef]

Originally Posted by DR60

By your own statement "Some are probably overweight and unsafe"
How will you feel if your young family is injured, permanently scared, or killed because you tried something that you know was overweight and unsafe?
A 3000lb trailer is much closer to what is a safe towing combo. DR

So your advice is to ignore the manufacturer’s tow ratings. Got it.

[tuffr2]

I keep going back to the Jayco 330 Series trailers that only weigh 9,800lbs empty. That is one high and wide and long travel trailer. I can find lots of 150/1500 series trucks with tow ratings that can tow the Jayco travel trailer.

If you see that travel trailer in person you would realize that tow ratings are really bogus when when it comes travel trailers.

There are plenty of travel trailers are you can buy that weigh 7,500lbs. The Audi can tow 7,700lbs so those travel trailers in theory can be towed by the Audi.

[DR60]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I keep going back to the Jayco 330 Series trailers that only weigh 9,800lbs empty. That is one high and wide and long travel trailer. I can find lots of 150/1500 series trucks with tow ratings that can tow the Jayco travel trailer.

If you see that travel trailer in person you would realize that tow ratings are really bogus when when it comes travel trailers.

There are plenty of travel trailers are you can buy that weigh 7,500lbs. The Audi can tow 7,700lbs so those travel trailers in theory can be towed by the Audi.

Audi rated at least one to pull that much weight. They did not say it will pull a travel trailer of that weight. Their test trailers have the weight as close to the surface of the road as possible, they use movable axles to get the weight evenly distributed, and the perfect tongue weight balance.
Does any of that sound like a hard sided TT?
Just like domestic Pickups, Audi has to put a door sticker on the SUV to show what it can be loaded at "As Equipped from the factory". And just like American SUV's the OP's Audi will run out of axle rating long before he ever gets to that magic 7,700lbs. How many times do we point this out to 150/ 1500 drivers? DR

[tuffr2]

That is fair. All manufacturers use special trailers to tow and control. I wish they would say tow rating is 7,700lns if trailer is a flat bed with rebar. Then they would say a travel trailer weight is 5,000lbs. And it will tow a 6,000 boat/trailer combo. That would be ideal but we are far from that.

[propchef]

Originally Posted by DR60

Audi rated at least one to pull that much weight. They did not say it will pull a travel trailer of that weight. Their test trailers have the weight as close to the surface of the road as possible, they use movable axles to get the weight evenly distributed, and the perfect tongue weight balance.
Does any of that sound like a hard sided TT?
Just like domestic Pickups, Audi has to put a door sticker on the SUV to show what it can be loaded at "As Equipped from the factory". And just like American SUV's the OP's Audi will run out of axle rating long before he ever gets to that magic 7,700lbs. How many times do we point this out to 150/ 1500 drivers? DR

It’s the very same testing that all vehicles sold in the US with a tow rating go through, including 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton pickups. It’s about as accurate as MPG ratings. It’s used for comparison.

The axle ratings are in the door jamb. Factory supplied tires and wheels along with suspension type also figure into this rating.

So if you doubt the published, tested ratings on the Audi, then you also mistrust the ratings on any PU. They all go through the same testing.

[Rgsauger]

With all the talk about surge brakes, did someone say that the rig he was looking at would not have electric brakes? I typically only see surge brakes on boat trailers. There’s absolutely no way I would tow a travel trailer with surge brakes.

[propchef]

Originally Posted by Rgsauger

With all the talk about surge brakes, did someone say that the rig he was looking at would not have electric brakes? I typically only see surge brakes on boat trailers. There’s absolutely no way I would tow a travel trailer with surge brakes.

All towed RVs in the US are required to have electric brakes and this varies by state. The range is anywhere from 2k lbs to 3999 lbs. I had surge brakes on my 30’ 10k lbs mobile kitchen and it wasn’t fun.

[Rgsauger]

Originally Posted by propchef

All towed RVs in the US are required to have electric brakes and this varies by state. The range is anywhere from 2k lbs to 3999 lbs. I had surge brakes on my 30’ 10k lbs mobile kitchen and it wasn’t fun.

Surge brakes on 10k sucks!

[OleSalty]

Originally Posted by propchef

It’s the very same testing that all vehicles sold in the US with a tow rating go through, including 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton pickups. It’s about as accurate as MPG ratings. It’s used for comparison.

So if you doubt the published, tested ratings on the Audi, then you also mistrust the ratings on any PU. They all go through the same testing.

YES!!! Finally you hit the proverbial nail on the head!

We DO NOT trust manufacturers ratings. A test trailer IS NOT a travel trailer, or a fifth wheel. Why do you think folks always refer to the 70% or 80% rule for weights? Why do you think everyone on these forums is always recommending a larger truck? Because we understand that a tow rating is a marketing point as well as a safety point. Do you really think your F450, rated to tow 40k in the 24's, is going to be a proper vehicle for a StarCraft 52' long fifth wheel? Hell no.

And if you go the "Europeans haul 6k travel trailers all day!" route.. yes.. they do.. but look at their trailers. Long sloping fronts, under 7' wide bodies, lower frames and centers of gravity. Only thing you find those build designs in the US or Canada is Airstream or InTech's. Or your Roo's or Microlights.. both of which are under 4500# normally.

People are going to drive and tow how they want, there's a LOT of people on here who's opinions and experiences I respect who will tell you to tow at 70mph. I think that's bonkers, but it's not really unsafe IF you have a proper set up.

Think of it this way: your vehicle and trailer make up a horizontal Jenga. Remove structural pieces, it becomes unstable. Add in a wobbly table.. and it fails. Comparing framed vehicles to anything unibody is a bad Jenga. Comparing independent suspension to solid is a bad Jenga. Comparing street tires with soft rubber compounds to enhanced heavy duty tires, is bad Jenga. Emergency braking, hard lane changes, bad roads, blowouts.. all bad Jenga. Too many bad Jenga and you have an accident.

[propchef]

Originally Posted by OleSalty

YES!!! Finally you hit the proverbial nail on the head!

We DO NOT trust manufacturers ratings. A test trailer IS NOT a travel trailer, or a fifth wheel. Why do you think folks always refer to the 70% or 80% rule for weights? Why do you think everyone on these forums is always recommending a larger truck? Because we understand that a tow rating is a marketing point as well as a safety point. Do you really think your F450, rated to tow 40k in the 24's, is going to be a proper vehicle for a StarCraft 52' long fifth wheel? Hell no.

And if you go the "Europeans haul 6k travel trailers all day!" route.. yes.. they do.. but look at their trailers. Long sloping fronts, under 7' wide bodies, lower frames and centers of gravity. Only thing you find those build designs in the US or Canada is Airstream or InTech's. Or your Roo's or Microlights.. both of which are under 4500# normally.

People are going to drive and tow how they want, there's a LOT of people on here who's opinions and experiences I respect who will tell you to tow at 70mph. I think that's bonkers, but it's not really unsafe IF you have a proper set up.

Think of it this way: your vehicle and trailer make up a horizontal Jenga. Remove structural pieces, it becomes unstable. Add in a wobbly table.. and it fails. Comparing framed vehicles to anything unibody is a bad Jenga. Comparing independent suspension to solid is a bad Jenga. Comparing street tires with soft rubber compounds to enhanced heavy duty tires, is bad Jenga. Emergency braking, hard lane changes, bad roads, blowouts.. all bad Jenga. Too many bad Jenga and you have an accident.

Originally Posted by OleSalty

YES!!! Finally you hit the proverbial nail on the head!

We DO NOT trust manufacturers ratings. A test trailer IS NOT a travel trailer, or a fifth wheel. Why do you think folks always refer to the 70% or 80% rule for weights? Why do you think everyone on these forums is always recommending a larger truck? Because we understand that a tow rating is a marketing point as well as a safety point. Do you really think your F450, rated to tow 40k in the 24's, is going to be a proper vehicle for a StarCraft 52' long fifth wheel? Hell no.

And if you go the "Europeans haul 6k travel trailers all day!" route.. yes.. they do.. but look at their trailers. Long sloping fronts, under 7' wide bodies, lower frames and centers of gravity. Only thing you find those build designs in the US or Canada is Airstream or InTech's. Or your Roo's or Microlights.. both of which are under 4500# normally.

People are going to drive and tow how they want, there's a LOT of people on here who's opinions and experiences I respect who will tell you to tow at 70mph. I think that's bonkers, but it's not really unsafe IF you have a proper set up.

Think of it this way: your vehicle and trailer make up a horizontal Jenga. Remove structural pieces, it becomes unstable. Add in a wobbly table.. and it fails. Comparing framed vehicles to anything unibody is a bad Jenga. Comparing independent suspension to solid is a bad Jenga. Comparing street tires with soft rubber compounds to enhanced heavy duty tires, is bad Jenga. Emergency braking, hard lane changes, bad roads, blowouts.. all bad Jenga. Too many bad Jenga and you have an accident.

We agree on several important points: that the published capacity isn’t necessarily accurate, that the brand of trailer make a difference, that wheels and tire are more important than most folks realize, and speed is always a factor of stability.

The 70% to 80% “rule” is a made up thing seen on the forums. I’ve yet to see any manufacturer back this. Would you apply the same “rule” to the carry capacity of your TT? Never seen that, and in fact if you apply that to TTs you’ll see that in many cases you’ll have zero payload.

I would probably add the pre-2021 Lances in the stable towing categories. Most TTs on the road are using suspension technology from the 1930s, with leaf springs and no dampers. Those trailers also tend to have a higher COG. The two of the brands you mention use an independent torque/torsion suspension, and I know that Airstream also uses dampers (shocks).

Unibodies with IRS are inherently stiffer than body-on-frame with a solid rear axle, and a few 1/2 ton pickups known to be good TVs use IRS.

Wheelbase is but one number when considering stability. To lean on that as a stand-alone determiner ignores many other factors.

Like many here I have a long history of towing a variety of trailers, from pop-up to our 30’ kitchen to TTs. We’ve towed our Airstream all over the mountains of NorCal and it’s a joy, not a chore. We also tow at a max of 62 when on the freeway, and even then I’m speeding since the limit in CA for towed vehicles is 55.

The question of “how much can I tow” is never an easy thing to answer, which is why in my very first response I recommended that the OP consult a seasoned professional. It’s a complex system.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by propchef

We agree on several important points: that the published capacity isn’t necessarily accurate, that the brand of trailer make a difference, that wheels and tire are more important than most folks realize, and speed is always a factor of stability.

The 70% to 80% “rule” is a made up thing seen on the forums. I’ve yet to see any manufacturer back this. Would you apply the same “rule” to the carry capacity of your TT? Never seen that, and in fact if you apply that to TTs you’ll see that in many cases you’ll have zero payload.

I would probably add the pre-2021 Lances in the stable towing categories. Most TTs on the road are using suspension technology from the 1930s, with leaf springs and no dampers. Those trailers also tend to have a higher COG. The two of the brands you mention use an independent torque/torsion suspension, and I know that Airstream also uses dampers (shocks).

Unibodies with IRS are inherently stiffer than body-on-frame with a solid rear axle, and a few 1/2 ton pickups known to be good TVs use IRS.

Wheelbase is but one number when considering stability. To lean on that as a stand-alone determiner ignores many other factors.

Like many here I have a long history of towing a variety of trailers, from pop-up to our 30’ kitchen to TTs. We’ve towed our Airstream all over the mountains of NorCal and it’s a joy, not a chore. We also tow at a max of 62 when on the freeway, and even then I’m speeding since the limit in CA for towed vehicles is 55.

The question of “how much can I tow” is never an easy thing to answer, which is why in my very first response I recommended that the OP consult a seasoned professional. It’s a complex system.

Honestly I think most of us agree more than not.

A couple thoughts;

- My ORV has shocks and is the best towing trailer I've owned. ....I suspect the 15% tongue weight is a big contributing factor as well. Proper weight distribution, good suspension and tires all make a difference.

- Uni-body vehicles typically have stiffer torsional rigidity though I'm not sure how important that is in this context; suspension stiffness is more of the issue IMO. But my bias towards body-on-frame (for towing) has more to do with the receiver attachment points, particularly when using a WD hitch (which again, I wouldn't do on this Audi). My friend Mark ripped his receiver out of his frame on his GMC 3500 DRW truck.....and it was bolted to metal 4x thicker than a typical unibody. I'll suggest that if a manufacturer specifically warns you not to use one, they probably have a good reason.

- I agree 100% that WB isn't the only issue to consider.....but it is a big one and one that many people tend to be unaware of.



Cheers,
Dave