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Old 01-17-2020, 07:31 PM   #1
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BetterWeigh?

Anyone have any experience with this new product from Curt? Can it really accurately determine weights from their accelerometer and torque convertor measurements?
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:33 PM   #2
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Maybe, but for less than $15 bucks and 20 minutes time I can get all 3 weight passes done at a CAT scale and operate the scale from my phone. Can readjust the hitch and reweigh for $2. Weight tickets are emailed.
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:10 PM   #3
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Maybe, but for less than $15 bucks and 20 minutes time I can get all 3 weight passes done at a CAT scale and operate the scale from my phone. Can readjust the hitch and reweigh for $2. Weight tickets are emailed.
+1, but I do wish I could get the individual-wheel weights. Side-to-side doesn't get weighed at the scales I've been to - just axle weight.

If someone sold a small one-wheel-at-a-time mechanical scale for less than $200, I'd buy one tomorrow.
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:40 AM   #4
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No, but I have a Haul Gauge which does the same thing.

Once calibrated properly it is very close to what I measure with my Sherline tongue weight scale and the CAT scales.

https://www.haulgauge.com/
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:20 AM   #5
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No, but I have a Haul Gauge which does the same thing.

Once calibrated properly it is very close to what I measure with my Sherline tongue weight scale and the CAT scales.

https://www.haulgauge.com/
Can you tell us more about your Haul Gauge? How does it work? How do you like it? The price certainly looks attractive.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:38 AM   #6
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These devices are all fine and dandy, but they are worthless with a manual transmission.

These use torque converter slippage as part of the calculations which of course manuals do not have.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:42 PM   #7
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These devices are all fine and dandy, but they are worthless with a manual transmission.

These use torque converter slippage as part of the calculations which of course manuals do not have.
Are you sure about that? Where did you find that info?

AFAIK they use acceleration/deceleration times vs a calibrated load (database) that they have for a truck configuration.

Using torque slip makes no sense to me as wear and tear will vary from one truck to the next. Torque slip will ve quite variable on some trucks at certain speeds,so it would be horribly inaccurate.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:25 AM   #8
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Their website talks about how they use torque converter slippage in combination with other vehicle dynamics to calculate the weights.

Also of note it has a 5% error, which could make or break a tongue or pin weight. Not accurate enough yet, but they have a great start. Nice gadget, but I'll wait.
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:43 AM   #9
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Are you sure about that? Where did you find that info?

AFAIK they use acceleration/deceleration times vs a calibrated load (database) that they have for a truck configuration.

Using torque slip makes no sense to me as wear and tear will vary from one truck to the next. Torque slip will ve quite variable on some trucks at certain speeds,so it would be horribly inaccurate.

Look under support/FAQ and the third question asks if it will work with a manual transmission.
"Weigh feature requires automatic transmission"
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:12 AM   #10
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Look under support/FAQ and the third question asks if it will work with a manual transmission.
"Weigh feature requires automatic transmission"
I did last night, I stand corrected. Actually, I spent a few minutes reading the theory and operation of it and it doesn't use torque slip in the way I assumed. It uses slip on acceleration, not slip when steadied up to a particular speed. Torque slip must be a small percentage of the overall data used for calculations. Who wants to tow with a manual in 2020? Driving in bottleneck traffic with a big trailer must be living hell with a manual transmission.

Yes, I can and do regularly drive a stick on a smaller vehicle.
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Old 01-31-2020, 07:25 AM   #11
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I did last night, I stand corrected. Actually, I spent a few minutes reading the theory and operation of it and it doesn't use torque slip in the way I assumed. It uses slip on acceleration, not slip when steadied up to a particular speed. Torque slip must be a small percentage of the overall data used for calculations. Who wants to tow with a manual in 2020? Driving in bottleneck traffic with a big trailer must be living hell with a manual transmission.

Yes, I can and do regularly drive a stick on a smaller vehicle.
LOL, yea, my tow vehicle is currently a manual and even at times I drive it around town it can be a PITA.

None the less, I do wish these worked with manuals. I'd have tried one out.
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:52 AM   #12
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Their website talks about how they use torque converter slippage in combination with other vehicle dynamics to calculate the weights.

Also of note it has a 5% error, which could make or break a tongue or pin weight. Not accurate enough yet, but they have a great start. Nice gadget, but I'll wait.
I think a 5% error would be under ideal conditions. The algorithms that are used have to make a lot of assumptions about how the weight is distributed, and the change in pitch of the truck in response to that weight. The pitch will be a function of the weight, where it's placed and how the springs react to that weight (which might be very non-linear, especially with overload springs). Weight includes changing fuel loads, passengers, cargo in the cab and in the truck bed, canopies and tonneau covers, etc.

Without calibration, these algorithms also seem to rely on every truck of the same make/model/options having the same spring response rate. I wonder if those vary less than 5% from one truck to the next.

It's not clear from the websites for these types of products if the algorithms are sophisticated enough to utilize dynamic changes in pitch during acceleration and deceleration. If they are, then it might be possible to apportion the weight between the trailer and the tow vehicle.
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Old 01-31-2020, 01:48 PM   #13
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I think a 5% error would be under ideal conditions. The algorithms that are used have to make a lot of assumptions about how the weight is distributed, and the change in pitch of the truck in response to that weight. The pitch will be a function of the weight, where it's placed and how the springs react to that weight (which might be very non-linear, especially with overload springs). Weight includes changing fuel loads, passengers, cargo in the cab and in the truck bed, canopies and tonneau covers, etc.

Without calibration, these algorithms also seem to rely on every truck of the same make/model/options having the same spring response rate. I wonder if those vary less than 5% from one truck to the next.

It's not clear from the websites for these types of products if the algorithms are sophisticated enough to utilize dynamic changes in pitch during acceleration and deceleration. If they are, then it might be possible to apportion the weight between the trailer and the tow vehicle.
According to my comprehension of their site, they say all vehicles will be individually calibrated. Seems like you set a person's weight in, sit on the tailgate (or bumper?) and the phone's acceleration sensors register spring rate. Don't be fooled, they are quite accurate. I run a NVH (noise,vibration and harshness) software for my repair shop too determine cause of vibrations on my phone.

Each vehicle also gets individual calibration vs their estimated baseline vehicle. I guess this factors in wear and tear as well as minor mods. for the acceleration and braking tests.
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:10 PM   #14
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According to my comprehension of their site, they say all vehicles will be individually calibrated. Seems like you set a person's weight in, sit on the tailgate (or bumper?) and the phone's acceleration sensors register spring rate. Don't be fooled, they are quite accurate. I run a NVH (noise,vibration and harshness) software for my repair shop too determine cause of vibrations on my phone.

Each vehicle also gets individual calibration vs their estimated baseline vehicle. I guess this factors in wear and tear as well as minor mods. for the acceleration and braking tests.
Even a 200lb person isn't likely to deflect the springs outside of their linear region. As I said, the springs response could be very nonlinear, possibly by design, especially as you hit the overload/helper springs. So, calibrating with a 200lb load may not be sufficient to accurately predict pitch for a trailer with a 1200lb tongue weight.

As for the sensors in the phone, I've analyzed the performance of IMU's in several portable devices. The performance of a Blu phone IMU is much worse in terms of noise, frequency resonse and cross-channel coupling than the IMU in a Samsung Galaxy phone, for example. Fortunately, in terms of static performance, the accelerometers in the IMU's can be calibrated against gravity for gain and offset. So measuring a change in tilt with some degree of accuracy (pun intended) isn't too difficult. Turning tilt into tongue weight is difficult.

I didn't say these products couldn't be accurate, only that the accuracy depends on an ideal set of conditions, and some assumptions on the part of the algorithms and models, which may, or may not be valid. It also depends on the care taken during calibration. Sitting on the edge of a tailgate will cause more tilt than sitting on a bumper, or the edge of the bed, for example. So will lying about your weight

Don't get me wrong, I think he engineers have been very clever, and the product may even be useful, but accurate? I suspect they can do a good job on total combined vehicle weight, but on tongue weight accuracy I remain skeptical.
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